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51
Should English stay the lingua franca of Europe? (fedia.io)
submitted 2 days ago by atro_city@fedia.io to c/europe@feddit.org
181 comments fedilink hide all child comments
 

There were many lingua francas of which French was supposedly the first global lingua franca. That changed and it became English (from what I understand). We will probably see another language become the lingua franca, so my question is: should it be English? Are there better candidates out there? Why / why not?

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[–] shaserlark@sh.itjust.works 5 points 13 hours ago

Is this some kind of ragebait? I speak French but if you look at the attitude that the French have towards their language and compare that to their average commandment of the English language, why should we do that to a whole continent?

If you ask me people in the EU should be raised bilingually and learn English from kindergarten on. All administration and official stuff should be bilingual. That would be a way for the EU to remain competitive. But no, we rather go down the Nazi route, way to go.

[–] HipsterTenZero@dormi.zone 23 points 22 hours ago* (last edited 22 hours ago) (2 children)

The Year of Esperanto is finally upon us! Bonan Matenon, Europe!

[–] Naevermix@lemmy.world 2 points 13 hours ago

Nia tempo venis!

[–] hannesambass@feddit.org 1 points 14 hours ago (1 children)

I would actually love a law that says Esperanto has to be the first foreign language taught in each EU school.

[–] FreeRangeMustard@lemm.ee 2 points 12 hours ago* (last edited 12 hours ago)

Why not a combination out of all European languages. Might be a huge mess, but still.

Edit: I‘m an idiot.

[–] dergewerkschafter@feddit.org 1 points 12 hours ago

Yes, cause many people do speak "broken" english and its compared to french or other languages easy to learn.

[–] ycnz@lemmy.nz 6 points 18 hours ago (1 children)

Given how western society is doing, Mandarin might not be a terrible call.

[–] atro_city@fedia.io 4 points 14 hours ago (1 children)

Isn't it the most difficult language to learn for Westerners?

[–] renzhexiangjiao@szmer.info 1 points 13 hours ago (2 children)

if by westerners you mean english speakers, then yes, it's known to be one of the more difficult ones. it's ultimately subjective, but what people find hard about mandarin is 1.the writing system 2.tones

what also doesn't help is definitely lack of exposure, chinese popular media isn't very popular in the west

[–] shaserlark@sh.itjust.works 4 points 13 hours ago

Also Chinese people are confused af if you try to speak Chinese with them. I tried several times and they were just looking at me like wtf are you doing. It’s probably a combination of not really getting why a foreigner would start speaking Chinese with them and me being extraordinarily bad at doing it too.

[–] atro_city@fedia.io 2 points 11 hours ago

Westerners = Europe, USA, Australia, New Zealand

1.the writing system 2.tones

Indeed. I just looked it up and the writing system is logographic. To my knowledge, not a single Western language is logographic and more alphabetic. The tonal system is also rare (not sure if exists at all) in Western countries.

To me, those are two major differences that are difficult to overcome.

[–] FreeRangeMustard@lemm.ee 1 points 12 hours ago

I wanted to learn French for a long time now. Would be a great motivation

[–] Jimius@lemmy.ml 23 points 1 day ago (1 children)

A common language serves common communication. As a happenstance of history that turned out to be English. Changing it would be enormously costly and hinder cooperation. Aside from that, learning English is useful as it's more or less commonly understood in almost every country in the world.

[–] dustyData@lemmy.world 9 points 20 hours ago* (last edited 10 hours ago) (2 children)

It's not a happenstance, the British colonized half the planet and refused to conduct government business in anything other than English. Then the US decided to play world police and economic hegemon. Europe followed as a matter of financial necessity due to globalization.

[–] Jimius@lemmy.ml 2 points 3 hours ago

If history had taken a different turn here or there. It could have easily been French or German or Dutch. In "our timeline" it happened to be the British Empire.

[–] MouldyCat@feddit.uk 4 points 19 hours ago (2 children)

But it could've easily been French (or some other language) that ended up in the same position.

[–] tal@lemmy.today 2 points 16 hours ago* (last edited 16 hours ago)

I think that what started that snowball rolling was the Seven Years War. That started the Brits on the path of being the bigger global empire.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_Years%27_War

For much of the eighteenth century, France approached its wars in the same way. It would let colonies defend themselves or would offer only minimal help (sending them limited numbers of troops or inexperienced soldiers), anticipating that fights for the colonies would most likely be lost anyway. This strategy was to a degree forced upon France: geography, coupled with the superiority of the British navy, made it difficult for the French navy to provide significant supplies and support to overseas colonies. Similarly, several long land borders made an effective domestic army imperative for any French ruler. Given these military necessities, the French government, unsurprisingly, based its strategy overwhelmingly on the army in Europe: it would keep most of its army on the continent, hoping for victories closer to home. The plan was to fight to the end of hostilities and then, in treaty negotiations, to trade territorial acquisitions in Europe to regain lost overseas possessions (as had happened in, e.g., the Treaty of Saint-Germain-en-Laye and the Treaty of Aix-la-Chapelle). This approach did not serve France well in the war, as the colonies were indeed lost, and although much of the European war went well, by its end France had few counterbalancing European successes.

In India, the British retained the Northern Circars, but returned all the French trading ports. The treaty, however, required that the fortifications of these settlements be destroyed and never rebuilt, while only minimal garrisons could be maintained there, thus rendering them worthless as military bases. Combined with the loss of France's ally in Bengal and the defection of Hyderabad to the British as a result of the war, this effectively brought French power in India to an end, making way for British hegemony and eventual control of the subcontinent.

[–] RedPandaRaider@feddit.org 2 points 19 hours ago

Thank god it's not French

[–] ShotDonkey@lemmy.world 6 points 21 hours ago (1 children)

Having a big economy who's inhabitants never have to invest time into learn another language is a huge advantage for this economy. It's not a level playing field. Today there is no reason to still support English. In Europe we should use Esperanto or another easy to learn equivalent.

[–] nullpilot@feddit.org 2 points 12 hours ago (1 children)

Today there is no reason to still support English

This forum bringing together people from different countries, is in itself proof that there is a reason. Many people are already comfortable if not fluid in the language. How many folks speak Esperanto already?

[–] atro_city@fedia.io 2 points 11 hours ago

How many folks speak Esperanto already?

As many as Lithuanians, Latvians, or Basque, and twice as many as Estonians.

[–] huppakee@lemm.ee 17 points 1 day ago (2 children)

The Lingua Franca didn't change because someone decided to change it, it slowly happened. You could argue it would be nice for EU if the (local) Lingua Franca would be the language of a large member state, but I don't see it happening by force. Probably better to just leave it to be English, even if the Irish are the only native speakers in the EU.

[–] FreeRangeMustard@lemm.ee 1 points 12 hours ago

This. It’s the same with forcing „wokeness“ on people. To safely implement change, the transition needs to be slow and steady.

[–] yeather@lemmy.ca 3 points 18 hours ago (1 children)

Ireland has English and Irish.

[–] atro_city@fedia.io 1 points 14 hours ago (1 children)

Irish? Isn't it called Gaelic?

[–] yeather@lemmy.ca 2 points 8 hours ago

Gaelic is the language family and includes Scottish, Welsh, and another language I believe (Brittain from Brittainy?). Kind of like how Spanish and French are romance languages or English and German are Germanic languages.

[–] UnityDevice@lemmy.zip -1 points 12 hours ago* (last edited 12 hours ago)

What if it remained English, but with the change that a new phonetic spelling system is used instead of the clusterfuck that is regular English spelling?

Wat if it remejnd Inglish, bat wit de chejnđ dat a nju fonetik speling sistem iz juzed insted of de klasterfak dat iz de regjular Inglish speling.

[–] x00z@lemmy.world 9 points 1 day ago (1 children)

We should start using Toki Pona.

[–] orize@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 23 hours ago (1 children)

I want to learn this. So cool

[–] x00z@lemmy.world 5 points 23 hours ago (1 children)

It's super easy to learn, but extremely hard to express stuff with.

To say "I love bricks" you'd say "poki loje lon sinpin li poki tawa" which translates directly to "red box on wall is lovely to me".

A vid by Half as Interesting on it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_d6bGAw5yt8

[–] orize@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 14 hours ago

Hll, thats discouraging

[–] keepthepace@slrpnk.net 12 points 1 day ago

English if we want ease of communication (and is the most likely path forward)

Esperanto if the goal is to teach it to a whole generation: it is designed to be easy to understand when you already know one European language (especially a latin one I think?)

Chinese if the goal is to speak the language of the dominant non European power in the next century

[–] lensipensi@lemm.ee 14 points 1 day ago

Logical thinking I would think English should stay. It is by far the most known foreign language in Europe.

[–] dumblederp@aussie.zone 5 points 1 day ago (1 children)

G'day from Australia, please don't cut our borderless monolingual Island off. Kiwi's probably feel similar too.

[–] Aufgehtsabgehts@feddit.org 13 points 1 day ago (2 children)

Don't kid yourself, if you would speak English over there, how come I barely understood this Australian who told me he's been "leggin' it barefoot since he stacked it near the servo and now he's flat out like a lizard drinkin' and tryin' to find a dunny before he cops a fair dinkum blue".

[–] FreeRangeMustard@lemm.ee 2 points 12 hours ago

I felt that. Not Australian, but I felt that.

[–] ycnz@lemmy.nz 5 points 18 hours ago

This is clearly fabricated, you're missing way too many swear words.

[–] Saleh@feddit.org 14 points 1 day ago

Question is, what should be the criteria for deciding which other language?

If it is for the sake of current global usability, English remains top.

If it is for geostrategic considerations, Spanish, French and Arabic would be the languages to cover South and Central America, large parts of Africa and West Asia.

If it is for population dominance inside the EU, it would be German, which probably will ruffle some feathers. If it is for population dominance in Europe, it should be Russian, which will ruffle a lot of feathers.

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