Proton has not gone rogue.
this post was submitted on 18 Feb 2025
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Privacy
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The only thing that turns people off is that they cooperate with governments. Well, if you're using it for your business you shouldn't worry about that unless it's illegal business, at which point you have bigger problems
They dont "cooperate with governments", they follow the laws they legally have to. All the cases I can think of where they gave info to a government with a legal order to do so, they gave information that has to be logged in order for the system to work and the subjects themselves used poor opsec eg: their real names for accounts and recovery emails...
Some privacy extremists have unrealistic expectations when they sign up to these things without fully understanding how it works and then blame the provider for something they were completely transparent about from the beginning.
You're right, they got called out as a "honeypot" for basic KYC and not having E2EE (which you can't with email AFAIK)
Tuta. Regardless of email provider, chose one that lets you use your own domain - that way it's easier to change providers.
I strongly recommend this as well. Swapped to Tuta and my own domain after leaving Proton. Having a domain for future moves is huge, I wish I had considered it sooner.
I like to dish out advice without actually following it.
Me to a depressed internet stranger: "Life is worth living"
Also me: Want to end my life every day
oh yeah, I have my own domain since Uhm 2004 and have switched providers about, hm, six times without problems. I never delete emails either (spam I do) and just use Thunderbird's drag and drop to move MA mails from one server to another.
I’ve been using Tuta for several years now, I didn’t know I could use my own domain!
Paid tiers only i think, but yes.
I am a paid tier… and I have my own business… this is really something I need to do.
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proton works, idc what one of the 5 owners say, it is impossible to avoid that type of people
They are technically not "owners" they are members of a "Board of Trustees" of a non-profit organization (the Proton Foundation). They are legally bound by Swiss law to uphold their organzation's goals of fighting for privacy rights.
But yea, Andy Yen's statements is quite concerning nonetheness, and its red flags.
I means its not like doomsday level situation that you have to drop everything you're doing and migrate, but its a good idea to pre-emptively move anyways, before he goes full elon.
We don't know how stong Switzerland's rule of law is, but you don't wanna wait and find out that it turns out the way like some other country's rule of law 👀
People keep posting this, like some kind of biased blog post on medium is supposed to be a gotcha moment that fixes everything. It doesn't.
I still use proton, even after their terrible trump takes, but mostly because I have the legacy tier subscription and I haven't found a better alternative.
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Posteo. Seems like it's missing love here. Simple, out of the way, it just works.
I would happily consider Posteo but the fact that they don't support custom domains is a deal breaker for me. That said, using an email aliasing service in front of it could be a solution.
If - for any reason - I want to move email providers, I don't want to change my email everywhere.
Posteo ftw!
https://mxroute.com/ if you need many different domains and email addresses but don't need a huge amount of space, very cheap and just works.
But if you have issues the guys who run it are quite rough and brutal, so support wil be tough on you and expect you know a lot about protocols, etc.
can you expand on the guys being rough & brutal? can’t find anything about that in a search.
First hint is already on the FrontPage:
We do expect you to understand how to use email and how to configure your DNS to use our service
Second hint, the very aggressive way their documentation is written with big font, repeating and slight threats. See https://mxroutedocs.com/dns/dnsrecords/
Third one, their refund policy in the FAQs:
We do not offer refunds. Please do not sign up unless you are comfortable with your choice.
And there are quite many people writing about their encounters online with them, like:
- https://www.reddit.com/r/webhosting/comments/rbwqew/mxroute_are_they_rude_on_purpose_whats_been_your/
- https://www.reddit.com/r/mxroute/comments/1b1nk52/one_of_the_worst_service/
And so on. If you can handle working in open source you can handle them too. They are very direct which is off putting for some people, but they care deeply about their customers.
Their response from the second Reddit post:
When you sent spam from your service in May of 2023, we asked you not to make us regret giving you a second chance. [...]
When you sent more spam on February 24 of 2024, we considered both interactions in our decision to terminate your account. [...]
Don't take my word for it, you already made the logs public so here's the spam you sent from our service:
Unironically the best advertising possible for their service. If they're being rude to those who deserve it, let it bang!
I second mxroute. They are solid
I'm using Posteo and have no reason to complain about anything. It pretty much just works. Few bells and whistles.
I can second Posteo. Functional, affordable, FOSS, ecological and private enough for my needs.
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I've been using mailbox.org for a couple of years now (a full switch from gmail to make sure I hadn't left anything over took me about a year), and I'm very happy with the service, can wholeheartedly recommend.
I've been using Inbox.eu, provider from Latvia, for a few years now, specifically with my own domain. Was pretty easy to setup, and the support was also good when I messed up some DNS settings.
Fastmail has been treating me well. Unlimited aliases and masked emails are really the only features I use, but it’s got sort of the classic suite of productivity tools you’d expect. I self host equivalents of these, but for a drop in replacement for most of the g-suite it’s good without trying to be more than it needs to be.
It's great except it's hosted in Australia. Not really privacy focused.
Yeah fair. A big part of my interest in it is that it split from Opera Software through a staff buyout, which to me says the people working there and maintaining it care a touch more than some companies. From the literature I consumed when signing up they seemed very privacy forward, and as a Proton VPN user I didn’t want all my eggs in one basket should Proton turn out to be a honeypot. That all being said, I agree with your point that they are subject to a legal system that doesn’t put users first compared to other countries, though for anything really sensitive I’m not really sure I would be using email to begin with, particularly not one I use for general clear net personal communication like banking and such.
100%, like you said, email isn't really made for private communications. Even with me calling it out as not private, I do use fastmail as my main provider and like it.
Email isn't private. It was designed to be robust not private. Encryption never really caught on; and your counterparties using Gmail or some Microsoft server in the background will kill any expectation of privacy you might have.
WW II's Gordon Welchman is worth reading about. Similar nasty end as Turing. Not as well known as Turing but a similar contribution before the encryption was actually solved.
Have used Zoho for decades. Dozen domains, three/four actual accounts. Don't seem to have had any issues with them selling my info - use them with Addy.io. I don't gain anything from this reference/comment.
Tuta, Proton, Murena, Nextcloud Mail, or use disposable mails like Maildrop or Altmails.
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