this post was submitted on 21 Dec 2024
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[–] MudMan@fedia.io 67 points 5 days ago (34 children)

Okay, look, I don't want to be a hater, I promise. I have a setup with a Linux dual boot in my computer right now. But man, the crazy echo chamber around this issue is not just delusional, it's counterproductive. Being in denial about the shortcomings isn't particularly helpful in expanding reach, if that's what you all say you want.

So, in the spirit of balance, my mostly unbiased take on the listicle:

1 - Web tools get the job done: This is true when it's true. I work with Google's office suite, so yeah, many tools are indistinguishable. But not all tools are web tools. A big fallacy in this article is that just because a subset of items have embraced a solution doesn't mean that the solution is universal. If you need to work with Adobe software you're still SOL. MS Office still lacks some features on the web app. Some of the tools I use don't work, so I do still need to run those in a native Windows app. Since I'm not going to switch OSs every time I need to push a particular button, I'm going to default to Windows for work.

2 - Plenty of distros to suit your preference: This one is an active downside, and it pisses me off when it gets parroted. When I last decided to dual boot Linux I had to try five different distros to find one that sort of did everything I needed at once, which was a massive waste of time. I'm talking multiple days. Yes, there are a ton of distros. I only need to use one, though. But I need that one to work all the time. If one of the distros can get my HDR monitor to work but not my 5.1 audio and another can get my 5.1 audio setup to work, but not my monitors, then both distros are broken and neither is useful to me. This actually happened, incidentally.

3 - Steam has a decent collection of Linux games, plus Steam OS: Yes. Gaming on Linux is possible and works alright, but it's far from perfect. Features my Nvidia card runs reliably on Windows are hit-and-miss under Linux. Not all games are compatible in the first place, either. And while Heroic does a great job of running my GOG and Epic libraries, which are themselves just as big as my Steam one, it is a much bigger hassle to set up to run under the SteamOS game mode UI. Don't get me wrong, this has made huge strides but again, I'm not going to change OSs every time I hit a compatibility snag. This is the least fallacious of these points, though.

4 - Proprietary choices on Linux: Yes, there are some. Like the web app thing, the problem isn't what is there, it's what's missing. Also, as a side note, I find it extremely obnoxious when you have to enable these manually as an option in your package manager. As a user I don't care if a package is open source or not, I just want to install it.

5 - Electron makes app availability easier. Cool. Will take your word for it. Acknowledging the ideological debate behind it goes to the same argument I made in the previous point. And as above, it's not about what's there, it's about what's missing.

6 - No ads in your OS. I mean... nice? I still get ads for my selected distro on first boot, as well as on web apps and notifications for installed apps. Beyond a few direct links to first party apps in the one page of Win 11's settings app I don't find anything in Windows particularly intrusive, either. Which is not to say I don't dislike some of the overly commercial choices in Windows, they're just not a dealbreaker... yet.

7 - Docker, Homelab and self-hosting: This is... off topic, honestly. I do self host some things. Even used Docker once or twice... in my NAS, where the self-hosting happens. You don't need to switch your home desktop to Linux for that, and nobody is questioning that Linux is the OS of choice for a whole host of device ranges, from servers to the Raspberry Pi. Linux is great as a customizable underlying framework to build fast support for a niche device with a range of specific applications. We should be honest about how that breaks down if you try to use it as a widely accessible home computer alternative where the priorities are wide compatibility and ease of use.

Well, that became a huge thing, but... yeah, I guess I was annoyed enough by the delusion to rant. Look, I'd love to step away from Windows, and it's a thing you can do if you're tech savvy and willing to pretzel around the limitations in your hardware choices and your willingness to tinker... but it's not a serious mainstream alternative by a wide margin. I wish it was. Self-congratulatory praise within the tiny bubble of pre-existing fans (and why are there fans of operating systems in the first place?) is not going to help improve or widen its reach.

[–] Kacarott@aussie.zone 18 points 5 days ago (23 children)

why are there fans of operating systems in the first place

Operating systems are huge endeavours of engineering and design by entire teams of people over decades, which are used literally daily. Is that not enough of a reason for people to be fans of them?

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[–] verdigris@lemmy.ml 6 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago)

The only point I can really agree with you on here is Adobe products (and some other niche proprietary stuff like AutoDesk -- I don't consider MS Office an industry standard and if your job does I'm very sorry). And that's just corporate lock-in, if you're already paying hundreds of dollars a year to use those programs then yeah you're gonna stay on the corporate OS.

Other than that, everything you brought up just isn't quite accurate, or evaporates as you get more comfortable with the Linux ecosystem. The distro point, for example: every distro is just a starting point. Outside of some niche exceptions like Gentoo and NixOS that will radically redefine how you configure the system, any distro can largely be made to work similarly to any other. The major differences are just a) initial package set, b) the package manager, and c) the set of available packages. There is no one-size-fits-all answer to "what software should be on a computer", which is why there are so many distros and spins out there.

I would say gaming is actually pretty close to perfect, provided you don't play any of the games that have decided they just will never work on Linux -- almost exclusively games that use invasive kernel-level anti-cheat software which I wouldn't want to install on Windows either. There are a handful like Fortnite and Apex Legends which use EAC, which works great on Linux now, but the devs explicitly decided to disable it. Just like the corporate lock-in point, if you're committed to those games stay on Windows. Heroic and Lutris take a few more clicks to set up than Steam's one-click magic, but it's generally pretty straightforward for any game with any popularity.

The point about ads is where I start to think you're deliberately being obtuse. You think that, what, a splash screen telling you how to use your computer when you first boot it, and notifications from apps you installed, are advertising? And you find them similarly annoying as the actual sponsored content that shows up in your start menu, on the lock screen, in Edge, when you use Cortana... Not to mention the constant pressure from the OS to use those things? The only way I can interpret this without you just trolling is that you've spent too long in the Windows ecosystem and you've just adjusted to not notice how often it's shoving something in your face.

[–] possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip 32 points 5 days ago (46 children)

It works for me and has done so for almost 10 years.

Sure it won't work for everyone but to say it isn't viable isn't true either. It depends on the person.

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[–] GenderNeutralBro@lemmy.sdf.org 26 points 5 days ago (3 children)

Regarding Office, fear not! Microsoft is working hard to remove functionality from the Windows and Mac desktop apps, so soon we'll have feature parity! See: "New Outlook".

They've been pushing this shit for years already, nobody wants it, and they're forcing it next year despite still not fixing shared calendars (among other things). New Outlook is basically just the web app in a wrapper.

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[–] possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip 35 points 5 days ago (9 children)

Why is this thread getting flooded with people saying how they can't use Linux? Isn't that a little odd coming from a Linux community?

[–] Strykker@programming.dev 41 points 5 days ago (6 children)

Because on lemmy a post getting 100 up votes is enough to end up somewhere high on all, so your seeing people from outside of the Linux community in here.

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[–] FizzyOrange@programming.dev 5 points 4 days ago (2 children)

I don't see why. You can be interested in Linux and like some aspects of it but still get annoyed at the blinkered zealots claiming that there's no reason to use Windows.

[–] possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip 5 points 4 days ago (1 children)

There is no reason for some people to use Windows

[–] FizzyOrange@programming.dev 2 points 3 days ago

Definitely true for a minority. Not the way most of these articles are presented though (including this one).

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[–] nimble@lemmy.blahaj.zone 3 points 3 days ago

Lemmy is weird and this showed up on my 'all' page yesterday and again today. So that's where you're probably getting those comments (and mine!)

But I've been using Linux servers long enough and switching to Linux for my workstation once i finish getting parts for a new build

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[–] dev_null@lemmy.ml 9 points 4 days ago (9 children)

My reason is that VR gaming is not feasible on Linux, so I need to keep a Windows VM to play VR games.

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[–] xtools@programming.dev 11 points 4 days ago

i never saw one to begin with

[–] mlg@lemmy.world 6 points 4 days ago (1 children)

I said this in another thread but I set up a windows vm for someone because they needed it to run literally one scam tax software, otherwise they had no reason to switch back from Linux.

Even stuff like icue that uses windows drivers for peripherals will run in a VM with USB pass through.

And even then there's a nice open source alternative for icue; you only need it if you want to edit hardware profiles.

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[–] Zink@programming.dev 4 points 3 days ago

I’ve been planning to switch my PCs at home to Linux as a winter project this year.

I just installed a new SSD and put Mint on the main newer machine yesterday. Nary a speed bump in the process, and it’s so nice to have the snappy desktop and update experiences I’m used to from running Linux all day at work.

[–] haverholm@kbin.earth 22 points 5 days ago (2 children)

Like most articles on itsfoss, this one is only a notch over clickbait — a kernel of an idea not fully developed, written with the last minute energy of a student who pushed off the assignment until right before deadline — but I'll be damned if that title isn't beautifully turned.

I haven't had to have Windows installed for more than a decade, but on recent occasion I've borrowed Windows and Mac computers for work. Those revisits didn't give me reason to switch back, only to long for my lean Arch install.

As the next major version of Windows approaches like a Santa down the chimney with all sorts of "AI"-infested gadgets in his sack, I do hope more will make the more often mentioned switch to a Linux distro from the ~~advertising platform~~ OS that came with their computer.

But this headline deliciously reminds us that there is already a good chunk of users who made the jump, or are sitting on the dual booting fence, one boot (sorry!) on either side. This article is for them, yes, but also a gentle nudge for those still gathering courage.

At this stage, it is time to seriously change the perspective of that switch. The single reason for switching from Windows to Linux is ... the utter state of Windows. Only the most blinkered of tech journos can continue to pretend that all is well on Windows, and not at all a sophisticated malware infection.

So bravo itsfoss for the clever barb, less so for the depth of the article itself.

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