this post was submitted on 19 Jul 2023
437 points (98.4% liked)

SNOOcalypse - document, discuss, and promote the downfall of Reddit.

4672 readers
1 users here now

SNOOcalypse is closing down. If you wish to talk about Reddit, check out !reddit@lemm.ee, !reddit@lemmy.world and !RedditMigration@kbin.social.

This community welcomes anyone who wants to see Reddit gone. Nuke the Snoo!

When sharing links, please also share an archived version of the target of your link.

Rules:

  1. Follow lemmy.ml's global rules and code of conduct.
  2. Keep it on-topic.
  3. Don't promote illegal stuff here.
  4. Don't be stupid, noisy, obnoxious or obtuse (S.N.O.O.)
  5. Have fun, and enjoy the popcorn! 🍿

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
lvxferre@lemmy.ml
437
Reddit invites mods to “feedback” conversations with the admins (www.theverge.com)
submitted 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) by lvxferre@lemmy.ml to c/snoocalypse@lemmy.ml
62 comments fedilink hide all child comments
 

Two IMO on-point excerpts of the article:

The highest-ranked replies are very critical of the post. “What good is our feedback when reddit seems perfectly happy to ignore all of it?” wrote one user. “What’s the point?” Another pointed out that Huffman called mods “landed gentry.” “Show, don’t tell,” wrote another user — to which the admin replied, “Agreed.”

“A beginning of what?” replied one user. “This solves nothing, and just wastes everybody’s time.”

Reddit's administration is sounding more and more like an abusive SO trying to gaslight you into staying in the relationship. "Baby I'll listen to you, I swear."

top 50 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] Seditious_Delicious@lemmy.world 97 points 1 year ago (2 children)

The irony is that while Reddit tried to commercialise what it's users perceive (whether accurately or not) as a community. It's like your local picnic spot or doggy park that you've been going to for years all of a sudden started charging an entry fee. That alienates consumers.

The unfortunate truth is that Reddit could have ended up being a very profitable respected business had the leadership decided to monetise it's venture in a different model.

Ultimately consumers have had their fill with the perceived corporate greed culture and in this author's view is the main drive away from Reddit by early adopters to other platforms such as this one.

Time will tell if the middle majority will follow in time.

[–] lvxferre@lemmy.ml 31 points 1 year ago (3 children)

It’s like your local picnic spot or doggy park that you’ve been going to for years all of a sudden started charging an entry fee. That alienates consumers.

That's a great analogy, specially if the hypothetical doggy park (or picnic spot) had multiple kiosks selling stuff - so the park owners already had some profit. As soon as the fee pops up, the owners do get a bit more short-term profit... but then people stop visiting the park, and that reduces the associated profit from both the fee and the kiosks, making the park even less profitable in the long run. And the alienated customers might not come back, even if the park owners realise the mistake and get rid of the fee.

Time will tell if the middle majority will follow in time.

My bet is that they'll leave. Not due to the alienation, but because the content there will become trash. They'll simply disengage, and their disengagement will snowball into more disengagement.

[–] athos77@kbin.social 9 points 1 year ago (1 children)

And the alienated customers might not come back, even if the park owners realise the mistake and get rid of the fee.

This is exactly what happens most of the time. Check out the short Twitter thread on the thermocline of trust.

[–] themoonisacheese@sh.itjust.works 7 points 1 year ago (2 children)

On the surface I agree with you but please remember that content quality need not be high. 9gag is apparently still going despite, well... Points vaguely at 9gag

load more comments (2 replies)
[–] Cybersteel@lemmy.ml 3 points 1 year ago

Like it wasn't alr bad years prior.

[–] ryathal@sh.itjust.works 4 points 1 year ago

A better analogy would be the park banned outside food and set up a mediocre food court instead.

[–] mysoulishome@lemmy.world 92 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Fire Steve Huffman and install a CEO who is capable of even pretending to care about balancing the needs of users and (potential) shareholders. It’s too late to ask for feedback.

[–] fist_of_fartitude@sh.itjust.works 62 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Nobody with the power to fire spez has a problem with what he's doing. This is likely driven by VCs and other investors wanting their money now that the Fed has turned off the cash hose.

[–] MidwestMayonaiseSalad@lemmy.world 18 points 1 year ago (5 children)

Their valuation has dropped by at least 20% this year based on what’s been reported.

They care.

load more comments (5 replies)
[–] PrinceWith999Enemies@lemmy.world 7 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I couldn’t think of a worse time to try an IPO, though. They’re selling into an already less than enthusiastic market. Although there’s been recoveries on parts of the tech sector, if the VCs are hurting for funds and the institutions are being conservative, it’s going to be a disaster.

I am not sure that the bad press over the APIpocalypse is going to have a lasting effect in and of itself, but if they’ve lost users or have slowed growth in the US market as a result, that definitely might. Elon destroying all remaining value at Twitter and spurring an exodus to Threads and other sites is also going to make people question hopping onto a big social media investment because the market has become less predictable than it was a year or two ago.

The late 90s were where you could use an IPO as a take the money and run exit strategy. I think they should have avoided Musking the site and instead pushed all out for growth and look to get acquired, maybe by a Chinese company looking to own a large US-based social media company.

It really looks like the financial decisions at reddit are being handled with the same level of competence as the site policy decisions.

[–] fist_of_fartitude@sh.itjust.works 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I completely agree, it's a pretty bad time for an IPO - in general. But, they also raised 10 rounds ($1.3 billion total) in funding over the years, a lot of that in the last 3-4 years; their E and F rounds were in 2021, for $250 million and (iirc) $700 million respectively. That's a lot of pressure to produce results, especially after the pandemic-inspired craziness has worn off and the Fed changed the zero percent interest rates that drove a lot of poor business decisions.

To quote a sadly departed poet on the subject - mo money, mo problems.

[–] PrinceWith999Enemies@lemmy.world 6 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I agree and I’m even a bit sympathetic - not to their leadership, who can sleep in the bed they made, but to the idea of the site. I just think they could have taken a few of those millions and used it to figure out something other than “We can increase revenue by eliminating access and making the experience worse for users that remain unless they pay us monthly.”

The heavy-handedness of the policy combined with the short timeline and non-negotiable, let-them-eat-cake stance makes me feel like this was a shoot from the hip thing rather than something fully investigated via models with decision points and predictions. In short, very Elon/Trump.

[–] fist_of_fartitude@sh.itjust.works 3 points 1 year ago

I think the core problem is that Reddit's leadership wanted it to be an SV unicorn, and they tried lots of ways to make money off the site (cryptocurrency, Reddit gold, an official app that I swear was designed to make you click on ads by mistake, etc.). But it as never going to be the kind of cash making machine, actual or potential, that they were looking for. Well, that and, once you start taking outside investments (especially from VCs), the goals of the organization necessarily change towards making an exit (IPO or acquisition).

I think this essay gets at a lot of the things about how the place worked and why the value was hard to convert into money. The feudalism frame is a little gimmicky, maybe, but does provide some perspective and a useful analogy.

[–] ryathal@sh.itjust.works 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Reddit likely doesn't IPO until Q4 or Q1 2024, by then most of the 3rd party drama will be forgotten. IPO is their only choice, there isn't tons of VC money looking to get spent, and they've already burned several rounds of funds to limited effect. I agree it's not a great time to IPO for Reddit, but they really don't have a choice.

[–] PrinceWith999Enemies@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I also think the drama will have died down, and even of it didn’t, it would have a limited effect on the IPO by itself. Twitter losing about 2/3 of its value isn’t because people think Elon is a jerk. It’s because he’s killing growth and revenue. If a company can’t trade on its profitability, it has to do so on its KPIs. What I’m saying is that if reddit’s growth was negatively affected by the ham fisted decisions, it’s going to pile negatives on top of already existing negatives.

Basically, I think it was a desperate move but also a terrible idea, not unlike Elon forcing $13B in debt on Twitter and then making up for it via the destruction of verification.

For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the $8, and lose his own advertisers?

Mark 8:36, approximately

I don’t think reddit was positively affected (as of yet) by the decision - otherwise they wouldn’t be doing the outreach stuff. If only 20% of reddit users are creating 80% of the content (a wild ass guess that’s not unreasonable as a starting point), and if those engaged users are more likely to be protesting/leaving, then the aftereffects are going to be showing up over the next two quarters. If spez needed to show a turnaround for the money folks, it needs to be a turnaround and not a “we tried.”

I just think they’re selling into a down market - down for them in particular but also for the industry - and if they IPO under those conditions I don’t think they’ll hold their initial pricing. “Here’s a turd. Do you want to pay a premium for it in case we can polish it?”

[–] ryathal@sh.itjust.works 3 points 1 year ago

It's absolutely desperate, but they don't have a choice. The company isn't profitable, their revenue per user is awful, they are running out of VC money, they hired a ton of people to growth hack their metrics and it appears to have largely failed, they have no plans for effective monetization of the site or how to be profitable at an acceptable level for the amount of investors they have.

[–] lvxferre@lemmy.ml 36 points 1 year ago (3 children)

I feel like they might actually do this. It wouldn't be the first time that they use a CEO to implement unpopular stuff, then fire him to say "everything is fine now" - cue to Ellen Pao.

[–] OberonSwanson@sh.itjust.works 30 points 1 year ago

They won’t, Spez is the ass clown they need to toe the line and take the bad press for all this. Once they get what they need, they’ll reward him but make it look like he was fired and hope you’ll be to happy to realize.

[–] mysoulishome@lemmy.world 24 points 1 year ago

They should. At least half of this debacle was created by the mind-numbingly horrible communication straight from his mouth (or fingers). Even if they just said look guys our CEO is dick, he shouldn’t have insulted the moderators and passionate users who loved apps…it isn’t ok snd we’re sorry. Even just that would be something.

They intended on crushing third party apps, they don’t care about users or moderators…that will never be different. The lying, insults and douchbagery was the cherry on top.

I used to browse Reddit with my Adblock turned off, man, so they would make money. The people that are the most pissed cared the most…

[–] PM_Your_Nudes_Please@lemmy.world 20 points 1 year ago

The irony is that Pao was brought in to implement changes that Spez wanted. Remember he used to own it, then sold it and “stepped down” as CEO to bring Pao in. Then he took the seat back again after she left. But this time they just skipped that step entirely, because Spez has just been making the unpopular changes himself.

So I don’t actually think it’s the case this time. If it were, Spez wouldn’t be CEO during all of these changes. I think Spez is simply trying to cash out when the company goes public later this year. He doesn’t care what the users think of the changes, because he’s entirely focused on the investor valuation. He’s doing everything he can think of to claw profit out of a site that has never been profitable, simply so he can point to this quarter during the IPO and go “Look! Reddit makes a lot of money! It’s worth a lot, and the stocks I’m offering should sell for a lot too!”

[–] HughJanus@lemmy.ml 17 points 1 year ago

Fire Steve Huffman

This will happen eventually. Just like Ellen Pao. Reddit will fire him but change nothing.

[–] HughJanus@lemmy.ml 92 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (3 children)

So, we’ve all had a... time on Reddit lately,” said the admin. “And I’m here to recognize it, acknowledge that our relationship has been tested, and begin the ‘now what?’ conversation.”

I love how they're just acting like they've just had an argument and now it's over and they're ready to move on after changing absolutely nothing.

It's like being verbally abused at home and you walk out, come back the next day and your partner is like "glad you got that out of your system" and expecting you to go back to "normal" without any sort of apology.

[–] OpenStars@kbin.social 23 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Argument with who even? We all are over here, having already left!? :-P

There comes a point where those that choose to remain are just asking for it, maybe?

[–] HughJanus@lemmy.ml 6 points 1 year ago

The 95% of people who didn't have the good sense to leave

[–] yata@sh.itjust.works 14 points 1 year ago

Because admins can see that that is exactly how it works. The mods who are angry in that thread (as well as the majority mods who weren't even participating in it) all still continue to let themselves be abused by continuing their mod services on reddit.

At this point there really isn't any excuse for continuing being a mod on reddit, no matter how angry their posts in that particular thread are.

[–] TonyTonyChopper@mander.xyz 4 points 1 year ago

gives me conniptions

[–] fujiwood@lemmy.world 73 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

A community garden(Reddit) with bad, broken or non existent tools.

Volunteer workers(Mods) bring their own tools(3rd party apps) to maintain the garden. Other volunteers(Reddit OC contributing users) plant seeds, water and harvest the garden. Other non-volunteers (Non-OC contributing users who only consume media) benefit, leech and take home food.

Garden owners(Reddit) decide to charge tool companies to allow their tools into the garden(3rd party app makers being charged for API access). Tool companies(3rd party app makers) can't pay exorbitant amounts. Volunteer maintenance workers(Mods) can no longer use outside tools(3rd party apps) to upkeep the garden.

The workers(Mods) become angry and disruptive by limiting access to the garden(Mods privatize and demonetize subreddits).

Non-Contributing leechers become upset. "We don't care about you workers! Give us food!"("No one cares about you Mods! We want to mindlessly consume! Give use media!")

Workers and real gardeners leave to find a better garden (Mods and OC contributors leave to find a better social media platform).

Old garden fills with weeds and dog shit(Reddit fills with reposts and bots).

The End.

[–] Peruvia@lemmy.ml 6 points 1 year ago

The same mfs who blame mods for spez's decisions will be the one who blame them for that platform's lack of content that they want to consume. Or "moderating too hard and I can't get more content". Once again, I'm glad we're all here and not there anymore.

[–] ohlaph@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago

Sadly, it is working.

[–] ikidd@lemmy.world 25 points 1 year ago

What a tone-deaf fuckwit.

[–] net00@lemm.ee 24 points 1 year ago

Are they expecting to fool anyone?

The CEO called them landed gentry, even while mods run reddit day to day for free, and the admins told them to fuck off and eat all the shit changes.

I'd like to peek into the brain of whoever made that post and look at all the mental gymnastics going on in there.

At this point probably not saying anything would be better?

[–] eleitl@lemmy.ml 23 points 1 year ago

Go die in a fire is the only feedback I have.

[–] Millie@lemm.ee 13 points 1 year ago

Why in the world would anyone want to go back to relying on a company that can't be trusted when they can be as independent as they could possibly want to be?

[–] Fantomas@lemmy.world 12 points 1 year ago (2 children)

How does one monetise when the customer is also the content? They're in a pickle here.

[–] MDKAOD@lemmy.ml 15 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Personally, I don't see it as all that difficult. The platform is an aggregator. They have falsely (naively?) overvalued their product. It's easy to make money by taking care of the community who creates their content, but the key is 'don't be greedy' and they can't help themselves.

The core issue of most US corporations is thst they're chasing impossible long term growth strategies to extract quick money. If they aimed for reasonable growth, people could join the company and plan to retire off their pension. Tech doesn't do that kind of 'old business bullshirt'

[–] ohlaph@lemmy.world 6 points 1 year ago

term

They have a 5 bil valuation. They vould lose 50% value and still be worth a lot. They are trying to trim the fat to make their conversation rates and ratios increase as to pump up their valuation for their IPO, then probably dip.

[–] Auzy@beehaw.org 11 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Maybe they should actually pay the mods. That's the only way they will be able to get them back on their side after the way they were treated

[–] Ryantific_theory@lemmy.world 6 points 1 year ago (1 children)

*gasp*

But that would cost money! Think of the investors!

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] BaldProphet@kbin.social 8 points 1 year ago (1 children)

It's a trap.

[–] lvxferre@lemmy.ml 9 points 1 year ago (1 children)

...are we still reviving old maymays?

[–] BaldProphet@kbin.social 3 points 1 year ago

That one is timeless.

[–] qwet@lemmy.world 6 points 1 year ago

there's no upside to reengaging a narcissist, that's how i see the reddit exec team fot the last 10 yrs. they don't exist anymore to my mind.

[–] qwet@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago

there's no upside to reengaging a narcissist, that's how i see the reddit exec team fot the last 10 yrs. they don't exist anymore to my mind.

load more comments
view more: next ›