She's correct. Fuck Israel. (inb4 someone calls me an antisemite bc they conflate hating the nation of Israel to hating Jews which is the dumbest fucking thing ever, bc I am American and I hate the American government so I guess I hate myself and everyone who lives here?)
this post was submitted on 16 Jul 2023
317 points (94.9% liked)
politics
18898 readers
3574 users here now
Welcome to the discussion of US Politics!
Rules:
- Post only links to articles, Title must fairly describe link contents. If your title differs from the site’s, it should only be to add context or be more descriptive. Do not post entire articles in the body or in the comments.
- Articles must be relevant to politics. Links must be to quality and original content. Articles should be worth reading. Clickbait, stub articles, and rehosted or stolen content are not allowed. Check your source for Reliability and Bias here.
- Be civil, No violations of TOS. It’s OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It’s NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
- No memes, trolling, or low-effort comments. Reposts, misinformation, off-topic, trolling, or offensive.
- Vote based on comment quality, not agreement. This community aims to foster discussion; please reward people for putting effort into articulating their viewpoint, even if you disagree with it.
- No hate speech, slurs, celebrating death, advocating violence, or abusive language. This will result in a ban. Usernames containing racist, or inappropriate slurs will be banned without warning
We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.
All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.
That's all the rules!
Civic Links
• Congressional Awards Program
• Library of Congress Legislative Resources
• U.S. House of Representatives
Partnered Communities:
• News
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
Kicking people off their land so your own people can move in has a term, it's called ethnic cleansing. It is considered a crime against humanity under the genocide convention.
load more comments
(15 replies)
Hey everyone don’t miss this guy right here! He’s a giant anti-American.
If he don't like it he can go to Somalia or something... USA USA
Russian Jew here that hates Israel. Can confirm fuck Israel.
You've got a twofer of being represented by shitty governments
Is there a government that isn't shitty? American here. It's all I've ever known. Strongly considering moving to South East Asia because it's a little less imperial-y. But I fully expect to be disappointed by the government in all kinds of new ways.
Being Russian, he is not represented by the Israeli government, so it is not, in fact, a twofer.
People use antisemitism accusations to defend the evil the Israeli government does. It's not antisemitic to recognize that kicking people out of their homes and having an open air prison city based on religion is evil.
Jews are generally cool people, and I'm friends with just about every single one I've ever met. Israel is a racist state actively and gleefully committing genocide. It's pretty annoying that Israel constantly using antisemitism as a shield effectively forces all criticism of Israel to immediately and preemptively justify itself as not being anti-Jew. You can, in fact, hate Israel without hating Jewish people. It's tragically ironic that Israel ended up becoming a fascist state committing ethnic cleansing when Jews are the most well-known contemporary victim of genocide. But Israelis themselves seem perfectly fine with the hypocrisy.
I am firmly anti-Russia, but I don't hate Russians. I am anti-China, but I don't hate Chinese people. I am anti-Israel, but I don't hate Israelis or Jewish people.
I doubt the vast majority of Americans would bat an eye at the first two statements. Why is the third one somehow more problematic than the first two?
As a secular Jew in the diaspora, I do wish Zionists would keep me out of their political games, but frankly, there's a contingent of people who conflate diaspora Jews, or Jews in general, with the Israeli state. I encounter this frequently with a Pakistani friend of mine, but the mindset is widespread among religious and political dogmatists of many stripes. This type of thinking long predates the establishment of Israel, and has flared throughout history in some terrible ways, so it's understandable why Jews would be sensitive to it, and Jews who support Israel would be just as incapable of separating their religious identity from Israel as antisemitic conspiracy theorists are. The land is part of our identity, and the Zionist project is (for many) a triumph of Jewish national identity and a beacon of hope for safety from antisemitic violence. The fact, then, that Zionism has always, since the latter half of the 19th century, gained at the violent expense of Palestinian Arabs, is a cruel irony, and utterly unconscionable for any Jew with a shred of ethical fortitude.
In short, it's hard for many reasons and for many people, Jewish and otherwise, to separate Israel from Jewish identity. When Jews do it, it's counterproductive to the cause of eliminating antisemitism. When non-Jews do it, it provides Jews with another reason to continue to be on high alert. One reinforces the other.
It's a bit of a conspiracy theory, maybe, but I definitely feel that Israel and Zionists don't necessarily do absolutely everything they could to prevent people conflating Jews and Israel.
I've heard other diaspora Jews complain before that they feel Israel is a bit too presumptuous in speaking for them.
Jon Stewart denounces Israel's apartheid of Palestine. People usually without biases notice.
load more comments
(1 replies)
It is almost unheard of for US representatives to publicly criticise Israel. Is she quitting next election or something?
She’s very very safe here in Seattle, I can tell you that.
Awesome. Let's keep her around a while.
load more comments
(8 replies)
The Democratic Majority for Israel has been killing progressive primary candidates with attack ads who might even challenge US support for Israel while it continues to expand settlements and oppress Palestinians. These attack ads never speak about the candidate's policy on Israel. And it's a Super Pac, so it doesn't have to reveal its donors or how much they donated although the PAC version showcases that the PAC at least is being largely funded by a person who donates to Republican senators. Yay for Citizens United!
Mellmann, the creator of the Super PAC and PAC doesn't believe that the US and US politicians should ever be critical of Israel, Israeli policies, or Israeli treatment of Palestinians, should ever make the $3.8B sent there annually have any sort of strings attached, and that there should be any sort of movement against Israel's illegal occupation and refusal of Palestinian refugees right to return (ethnic cleansing 101) akin to the movement against South African apartheid.
Look, Israel is the birthplace of Judaism (and Christianity). It is and always will be the home of Judaism and its followers. I think whatever happens in the future, that should be a cardinal rule. But a theocratic democracy is not possible, especially one where you're freaking out about becoming a minority and seem to think people of a certain religion or ancestry are more privileged in law and the courts.
But do you know who else has been in Israel-Palestine and the rest of the Canaanite region since the Bronze Age (the same as the Ancient Israelites)? Palestinians. Israel-Palestine is just as much their home as it is for any descendant of the Ancient Israelites (and so this should be another cardinal rule whatever happens in the future). Just because their religion today is Islam and their language is Arabic instead of some sort of Canaanite religion doesn't mean they deserve their home any less.
Like people didn't stay there and change religions and languages after Rome took out the Jewish government in AD 70 and people warred over the region over the next couple of millennia.
And even if they weren't descendants of Canaanites, they would have been living there for nearly 2000 years, longer than Israelites can traced as a distinct people before AD 70. And even if it wasn't 2000 years, but just 200 years, you don't get to displace or oppress people whatever their ancestor's relationship to the land is. The reality is that they're there and that's all they've ever known. And that's enough whether Palestinian, Uyghur, Rohingya, or Jewish in Europe and America and Middle East over the millennia.
more people should boycot israel for their treatment toward Palestine.
Huh. I guess right now, this is the one sole Democrat representative I have respect for. At least someone's willing to speak the truth of Israel's manifesting their destiny all over Palestine.
Bernie has his moments. AOC briefly had hers. Ilhan Omar is consistently on point. Despite Pelosi throwing her under the bus.
US corporate media crucifies her in 3.... 2.... 1....
I absolutely guarantee you there is going to be some made up scandal involving her in the coming months. In America, you don't state the obvious that Israel is a terrorist state without getting some bullshit claim pinned to you. Whatever "scandal" they come up with, it might not even have anything to do with Israel at all. In fact, chances are, it won't. But whatever it is, it will see people claiming she step down from office or sees her power diminish overall in Washington.
She's not wrong about Israel. I would support cutting off aid from Israel and not support Palestine either. That's probably the best solution.
The U.S. actively helped Israel starve Gazans and the U.S. ensured that UN aid to Palestinians was blocked. We have a collective responsibility to Palestinians to help undo our damage.
I'm not versed in Palestine-Israel history. I only know that Palestine currently doesn't seem like it has a leader while Hamas is still a issue, and Israel is participating in trying to destroy Palestine. Basically, it looks like no one wants to solve problems there or get involved.
load more comments
(1 replies)
Palestine would burn to the ground in this scenario.
But at least America wouldn't be HELPING Israel burn Palestine to the ground.
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/7/10/us-and-israel-start-joint-military-exercise
An "at least" that includes a bunch of deaths isn't a viable solution.
load more comments
(2 replies)
Ok, what are other solutions that would work? I could think of sanctions toward Israel on top of cutting off aid toward Israel would help a bit. I do not know much about Israel-Palestine history, but to me I get the impression no one there wants it to end or seem to be so.
I don't know, I'm not an expert on this topic.
My initial reaction is that this is a "both sides" stance that punishes the victim, but I'm interested to become more nuanced. Would you mind expanding on why this would be best?
load more comments
(4 replies)
view more: next ›