this post was submitted on 01 Oct 2024

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Israel vows to retaliate after Iran launches unprecedented missile attack (www.theguardian.com)

submitted 1 month ago by breakfastmtn@lemmy.ca to c/world@lemmy.world

26 comments fedilink hide all child comments

Israel has vowed to retaliate after Iran launched a barrage of ballistic missiles at targets across Israel in a dramatic intensification of a conflict that appeared to be escalating out of control.

“Iran made a big mistake tonight – and it will pay for it,” Benjamin Netanyahu told a meeting of his security cabinet late on Tuesday. “The regime in Iran does not understand our determination to defend ourselves and our determination to retaliate against our enemies.”

The unprecedented Iranian salvo of more than 180 ballistic missiles came less than 24 hours after the Israeli prime minister ordered the largest ground incursion into southern Lebanon in a generation.

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[–] BMTea@lemmy.world 24 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

Iran blowing up Nevatim airbase (where US shipments of bombs mostly came in) is a moral victory regardless of their reasons. Better use of their power than helping Assad treat his own citizens in a slightly-less monstrous way than what's been done to Gaza. Reminds me a bit of when Trump struck Syrian airbases actually.

Also a show-y, escalatory move from a morally dubious power but nevertheless was appreciated by us who actually live in this region and know people slaughtered in merciless airstrikes.

[–] Sundial@lemm.ee 4 points 1 month ago

Hope you're staying safe out there.

[–] technocrit@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 points 1 month ago

"Retaliate"... Why do people even post this imperial trash?

[–] corsicanguppy@lemmy.ca 3 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Maybe stop. Then we can get to the trial over the pager terrorism and this can be all done, and we can focus on reparations for the other belligerent invasion (and 60 years of cruelty, ha ha, just kidding).

[+] takeda@lemmy.world -16 points 1 month ago (1 children)

The thing with "pager terrorism" is that it was genius in targeting just the terrorists. The supply chain of the terrorist organization was hijacked, and even then no one normal uses pagers today.

[–] Sundial@lemm.ee 15 points 1 month ago (1 children)

There were literally children who were injured/killed in that attack. That was not a targeted attack.

[+] Tedesche@lemmy.world -12 points 1 month ago (1 children)

It was and it wasn't. It was a brilliant move, but Israel also obviously knew there would be innocent bystanders. Overall though, given the amount of damage it did to Hezbollah, I'd say you'd be hard pressed to give Israel a better attack option.

[–] Sundial@lemm.ee 12 points 1 month ago (1 children)

I'm not arguing about its effectiveness. I'm saying it was not a targeted attack and innocents were hurt because of it. Then again we really shouldn't be surprised given Israel's history of war crimes.

[–] papertowels@lemmy.one 2 points 1 month ago (1 children)

It was targeted, but not precise enough to keep innocents safe.

[–] Sundial@lemm.ee 3 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

Then it wasn't targeted. Blowing up a bunch of IEDs with no way to verify who they're hurting is not a targeted attack. It's an act of terror on a civilian population.

[–] papertowels@lemmy.one 0 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Blowing up a bunch of IEDs with no way to verify who they're hurting is not a targeted attack.

My understanding is that it was selectively pagers used by Hezbollah that blew up, which is a far cry from the indiscriminate planting of IEDs you're describing. These weren't dispersed at random throughout a civilian population. They were ...targeting Hezbollah members by being planted on them.

[–] Sundial@lemm.ee 3 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Israel had no way of knowing who was holding or beside the pager when they blew them up. Hence, the civilian casualties and why it wasn't actually targeted. I know Israel has a pretty low enemy combatant to civilian kill ratio but just because this was slightly more targeted than their usual selves doesn't mean it was actually targeted.

[–] papertowels@lemmy.one 0 points 1 month ago (1 children)

How many accounts have there been of non-hezbollah folks holding the pager when it blew up?

I carry one for work, and that shit is on me unless I'm sleeping, because the entire point of a pager is it can reach me no matter what, I'd be surprised if that deviated significantly for Hezbollah folks.

[–] Sundial@lemm.ee 2 points 1 month ago (1 children)

At least several children were killed. You're missing the point though. A targeted attack means you want to attack a single individual and know exactly where, how, and when to attack. Israel just pressed a button and blew up a bunch of pagers without actually knowing who they would hurt.

[–] papertowels@lemmy.one 0 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

At least several children were killed.

Are you saying that the children were holding the pagers, or are you avoiding my question of how many civilians were holding pagers that went off?

A targeted attack means you want to attack a single individual and know exactly where, how, and when to attack.

A pager that out of necessity has to be on someone for it to work seems to fit that bill.

Single individual: targeting the person assigned to the pager

Where: right next to the pager

How: explosion

When: perhaps the weakest point, if someone was sleeping then the timing wasn't right.

Again, my initial point is that it was targeted, but not precise enough. Targeted does not mean 0 innocents were hurt.

[–] Sundial@lemm.ee 2 points 1 month ago (1 children)

The where/how/when answers you provided need to be a lot more specific to fit the definition of targeted. A proper example of a targeted attack would be the US assassination of Al Qaeda leader Ayman al-Zawahiri.

[–] papertowels@lemmy.one 1 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Great example to discuss! I'll point out that the r9x used in that strike is considered a precision weapon. Again, targeting and precision are two different things.

It feels like you're conflating the two - do you consider them to be the same?

[–] Sundial@lemm.ee 1 points 1 month ago (1 children)

They're different things but they do complement each other. You can't have a targeted attack without some high level of precision. I'm genuinely struggling to think of an example a "targeted attack" without some kind of precision applied in the attack.

[–] papertowels@lemmy.one 1 points 1 month ago (1 children)

So in this case, I'd suggest that it was a targeted attack, because there's definitely credit due for setting up shell companies to infiltrate the supply chain to modify devices that are very much only for Hezbollah members to use for Hezbollah activities.

However, the actual method of killing wasn't precise enough in the sense that there were too many civilian casualties. I'm talking out of my ass here, but if the payload was instead ye olde polonium poisoning on a needle that you'd get pricked when changing the battery, for example, that'd be a very precise and targeted strike.

[–] Sundial@lemm.ee 1 points 1 month ago

I would say the polonium needle example you provided would be an example of a much more precise and targeted attack, yes. I still fail to see how you could define the blowing up a bunch of pagers as targeted. Even if the pagers were meant exclusively for Hezbollah. The only way I could kind of see your argument is if all targets were confirmed to be in military bases or something like that. The fact that these were blown up in civilian areas like homes, schools, stores, etc and that civilians actually died because of it, discredits the "targeted" claim in my opinion.

[–] MediaBiasFactChecker@lemmy.world -3 points 1 month ago

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[+] Hlodwig@lemmy.world -20 points 1 month ago (4 children)

Attacking Iran is pretty much the only solution to get rid of these Hezbollah and Hamas shit stains. Everything is financed and organized by them. Occupying Gaza or south Lebanon will not change anything if Iran is still there to back up assholeseverywhere. And most arabe country would be very keen to help destroy Iran dictatorship that is a real pain in the ass everywhere (Houtis for saudian and Assad in syria). It is the only normal way to finally get rid of the last real shit governments that are Iran and Russia. China is another issue, but they will never react except to make profit over these wars...

[–] NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io 8 points 1 month ago

Uh... Not saying Syria and Iran are good guys, but I'm only counting ~~one~~ two governments with a history of committing genocide in the 21st century and they're both US allies. And let's not forget that the gulf states all practice slavery.

Edit: Brainfarted.

[–] Deceptichum@quokk.au 6 points 1 month ago

And who will get rid of these Israeli terrorist shitstains?

[–] Sundial@lemm.ee 3 points 1 month ago

Israel is literally the shittiest government in that whole area.

[–] takeda@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago

Thy don't share border so one can't invade each other, they can only fly missiles and rockets between each other.