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I'd love to be able to ditch the gui entirely, I've found working from a TTY really helps me focus on the actual work I'm supposed to be doing
Unfortunately the one impossible hurdle is the web browser. Have kinda got around the need for it mostly with an llm cli for basic questions but will always find myself needing to fire up a window manager just to get a browser eventually
Also doesn't help that I'm primarily a web developer
How much can you actually do without a windowing environment? [...] Opening images in fbi, PDFs in fbpdf, listening to music in cmus, watching movies in mplayer
~~Maybe not an "environment" but it sounds like you're at least using a window manager. The PDFs and videos, not to mention web browser, are gonna be hard to pull off from a raw shell.~~ [Hard but not that hard, apparently!]
But that's a detail. Otherwise I share your enthusiasm, I've been doing things this way for a while. Basically: tiling window manager + TUI file manager + scripts which do precisely what I want, if possible in the terminal, if necessary by launching a GUI app. In practice the GUI apps are Firefox, mapping app, and messaging apps.
The general discovery I made was this: for the small price of foregoing pretty colors and buttons and chrome, you can get a computer to do exactly what you want it to do much quicker. Assuming a willingness to learn a bit of shell scripting, of course.
For example: I have a button which runs a script with getmail that pulls in my email and then deploys ripmime and weasyprint to convert it to datestamped PDF files, which it dumps with any attachments directly into an inbox folder. In other words, I have made ranger into my email client and I never need to "download" anything, it's already there.
And those PDFs I can then manipulate with a bunch of shell scripts that use standard utilities, i.e. to split them, merge them, shrink them, clean them of metadata, even make them look like they come from photocopied paper (dumb bank!). All the stupid shit I once did with 10 manipulations hunting thru menus with a pointer in a fiddly app and always forgetting how it was done. Now I just select the file in the terminal, hit a button and it's done, I don't even see the PDF.
Of course, it's not for everyone, but this is the promise of free computing.
The general discovery I made was this: for the small price of foregoing pretty colors and buttons and chrome, you can get a computer to do exactly what you want it to do much quicker. Assuming a willingness to learn a bit of shell scripting, of course.
I find the emphasis people put on speed interesting, because by far the slowest part of any interaction I have with my computer is caused by me just figuring out what I'm doing next. When I'm functioning at top speed not needing to click around, or say, having the perfect keyboard shortcut, would save me only fractions of a second.
Actually.. to add to this I think the cognitive load of visually navigating is much lower than typing specific things it. I think this is why I find I'd prefer to click around my bookmarks or files to find something than just pull up a "Find" dialog and type something reasonable in.
Fair point about raw speed. I never found the keyboard-vs-mouse speed debate very interesting either.
But cognitive load is a double-edged sword. Sure, the first time you attempt a task, the abstraction of a GUI is really helpful. There's nothing to remember, you just point and click around and eventually the task is done. But when you have a task with 7 steps which you have to do every 2 weeks, then the GUI becomes a PITA in my experience. GUIs are all but impossible to script, and so you're gonna need a good memory if you want to get it done quickly and accurately. This is where CLI scripting becomes genuinely useful. Personally I have quite a few such tasks.
No, I'm not using a window manager, X nor Wayland.
Images, PDFs and video can be rendered on the framebuffer, which has been the standard output for Linux TTY's for a while now.
For multitasking, I use tmux, which works a lot like a tiling window manager, but for the text console.
Great! I guessed that going full framebuffer would be trickier than that. You've laid me down a new challenge.
Pretty cool, this is how people used computers before, but back then computers couldn't do as many things as they can now
Thatâ™s⠀really cool. � Ꭰо уо𝗎 𝗍һі𝗇𝗄 уо𝗎'ӏӏ со𝗇𝗍і𝗇𝗎е ᖯ𝗋о𝗐ѕі𝗇𝗀 ӏі𝗄е 𝗍һа𝗍?
Fuck you, you really made me check on my phone if all my text looks like this :(
Yes, I think I will. Not exclusively, of course. But starting Firefox in Wayland just takes a key combo and 5 seconds if needed.
Starting Firefox takes 5 seconds? I start thinking I need to optimise if it takes more than 2
It takes 5 seconds when the PC has to start up a wayland compositor, first.
Ahhh my bad I didn't read your comment properly, assumed you meant with a desktop running already
Launching it using the raw framebuffer means it blocks the screen until you close it, and there's no means to do anything else except switching to another TTY, is that it?
Are there any non-JavaScript websites left?
Not OP, but some of them have non-JS version, in addition to the regular JS version; but yeah, a lot of sites are broken.
Websites from alternative networks such as Onion, Freenet, I2P and GNUnet, where speed and privacy are a must-have. Onion webchats, for example, uses neverending-loading with iframes/HTML frames (and another frame/iframe with a standard HTML form), so to not depend on JS.
At the surface web (clearnet), however, it's harder to find. Even the remaining old sites, from blogosphere and personal tilde websites (those whose URL contained a tilde "~" followed by an username) have some degree of JS.
Even the remaining old sites, from blogosphere and personal tilde websites (those whose URL contained a tilde "~" followed by an username) have some degree of JS.
Although those websites usually work totally fine without js
Wikipedia
Surprisingly, a lot. And usually they're the more informative and less commercial ones.
Most websites that only show a "please enable Javascript" banner I just leave again. Very few I do need, for those I have a key combo that starts a window manager with maximized Firefox on another TTY.
Neocities.org
Welcome back to 1985 I guess. Now you're going to need a green phosphor CRT and a dot matrix printer.
I'd prefer a dot matrix printer over whatever the fuck HP makes now.
My Epson RX80's ribbon is somewhere in landfill. The Commodore 64 however is all good and now sports a USB interface with more storage than the poor thing can possibly ever use. The Quickshot II joystick still works too.
1984ish was when the C64 was bought by my dad, from the NAAFI in Rheindahlen (West Germany, as was).
Picture the scene:
Me and brother fly home from UK to probably Dusseldorf at the end of the winter term. Its December in the mid '80s. Every now and then, Russia sends a Tupolev Bear or Badger to chug along overhead. The US sends a YR-71 over the USSR at multiples of the speed of sound. The Cold War was quite unpleasant to live through. Its quite chilly, snow tyres on the car, chains in the boot. The autobahn has the usual psychotic bunch of lane two and three drivers. Lane one generally runs at around 90mph (yes, even back in the '80s)
We get to home at the time (we move every two years or so - it is the way of things). Dad shows off the new gadget. He plugs the power lead into the video port.
Some weeks after we have gone back to school for the spring term, the C64 is returned from the menders. We get to use it in the Easter hols. It travelled to the UK and back to DE several times and also to Cyprus (WSBA). The QS II took a serious battering thanks to Daley Thompson's decathalon.
I got it re-capped in 2019, which was all that needed doing. They were rather well made ...
What did you use to do so?
I tried w3m, lynx, links and elinks, which all failed cause they don't support JavaScript, which is necessary to log in.
Then I tried Browsh and Carbonyl, which failed cause they both don't accept mouse clicks in a TTY and offer no keyboard navigation.
Then I tried Neonmodem Overdrive, a CLI fediverse browser, which I just couldn't get to show any posts.
In the end, @pmjv@lemmy.sdf.org gave me the hint that some instances have alternative "old-reddit-like" frontends that allow logging in without JavaScript.
And my home instance with old.feddit.org is one of them. So now I'm using links, cause it's the most user-friendly text browser IMO.
OP shared the tools they used, you've probably missed it.
- browser - links
- image viewer - fbi
- PDFs - fbpdf
- music - cmus
- movies -mplayer
- e-mail - alpine
- documents - vim, latex
Ah gotcha. I'm on cell so it just looks unformated text.
Open up fbi
Browsh images in CLI browser
It's 2008. I'm posting this from the browser on my Nintendo Wii.
You get a similar feeling using the console a lot in full screen. It's just a very peaceful, focused experience.
That’s actually a good point. I’m a TUI guy as much as the next one but I normally use full screen terminal and tmux instead of larping the 90s.
Deeply respect the hustle - I was also X-free in the early 00s - but I wonder what is the advantage of going raw tty instead of full screen terminal in a wm
I remember using Reddit years ago on Links. New Reddit was borderline unusable, old Reddit worked... okayish. How is Default web UI Lemmy on Links? Is there a nice TUI client that I guess you would use more regularly?
The default Lemmy UI doesn't work on Links, it won't let you log in without JavaScript.
I use the alternative UI old.feddit.org (old.lemmy.world, old.sdf.org and probably others also exist).
And that works really well.
There is Neonmodem as a TUI client
Tried it. Didn't show any posts or comments no matter what I tried. I sent my logs to the dev, they released a new version, still didn't work. So I gave up.
Your post made me wonder, so I checked and of course it exists. Behold, a text-mode Lemmy client: Neon Modem Overdrive
Tried it. Didn't work.
Well, that's disappointing.
Try it if you're interested. It worked for enough other people that the dev closed my issue.
I couldn't get it to show any content, on 3 different distros and 4 different home instances.
Maybe I'm just really dumb, though.
Give browsh a try
I did. It doesn't accept mouse clicks from gpm, and it doesn't offer keyboard navigation. Both issues are long-standing bugs that also affect the Chrome version, Carbonyl.
Why alpine instead of mutt? It must be some 20 years since I least heard about pine or any of its forks
Because I'm too dumb to configure mutt.