this post was submitted on 18 Sep 2024

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525

Exclusive: Germany has stopped approving war weapons exports to Israel, source says (www.reuters.com)

submitted 1 month ago by girlfreddy@lemmy.ca to c/world@lemmy.world

35 comments fedilink hide all child comments

Germany has put a hold on new exports of weapons of war to Israel while it deals with legal challenges, according to a Reuters analysis of data and a source close to the Economy Ministry.

Last year, Germany approved arms exports to Israel worth 326.5 million euros ($363.5 million), including military equipment and war weapons, a 10-fold increase from 2022, according to data from the Economy Ministry, which approves export licences.

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[–] PugJesus@lemmy.world 90 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Good.

[–] WhatAmLemmy@lemmy.world 16 points 1 month ago

A solid 8 or 9 months beyond acceptable, but the only time it's too late to stop arming genocidal regimes is after their goal is complete.

[–] Maeve@kbin.earth 54 points 1 month ago

I hope this is s turning of the tide and other nations will pressure the US to be better.

[–] HK65@sopuli.xyz 47 points 1 month ago

This is why the ICJ cases matter.

[–] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 27 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

I guess better late than never. Although, I do begin to wonder how much of this is in response to Israeli's tax base getting eviscerated by the war

[–] MonkderVierte@lemmy.ml 20 points 1 month ago

Now US.

[–] unskilled5117@feddit.org 10 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

The discussion around this isn’t differentiated enough. Germanys foreign Minister has explicitly stated that what was exported, is stuff whose purpose is defensive in nature, e.g. Ground to air missiles. I can’t say if that is true, though there is some corroborating material. Nevertheless arms exports is too general as a category in my opinion.

[–] Saleh@feddit.org 10 points 1 month ago (2 children)

Shortly after Oct. 7 Germany sent 3000 "MATADOR" Anti-Tank rocket launchers to Israel. Hamas doesn't have any tanks or armored vehicles...

[–] barsoap@lemm.ee 0 points 1 month ago

The "ADOR" part of that stands for anti-door, they're useful for urban fighting. It can not only get through armoured doors, but also turn walls into doors.

When it comes to genocide though they're certainly not cost-effective. I don't think that export would be allowed right now, but just after the 7th was a different time where it wasn't yet absolutely clear that the Kahanites were actually getting the genocide they always wanted, that the other 90% of Israelis would let them get away with it.

[–] unskilled5117@feddit.org -1 points 1 month ago

Well then you‘ve said it yourself: “shortly after“ they were attacked. That is not really much of an argument.

[–] theacharnian@lemmy.ca 9 points 1 month ago

But various bros told me here on Lemmy that action at the international law level is meaningless.

[–] daddy32@lemmy.world 4 points 1 month ago

I guess they have enough now.

[–] SattaRIP@lemmy.blahaj.zone 3 points 1 month ago

After Isn'trael has entered a 4 front war

[–] abff08f4813c@j4vcdedmiokf56h3ho4t62mlku.srv.us 1 points 1 month ago

The important part is this,

"There is no German arms export boycott against Israel," government spokesperson Steffen Hebestreit said.

It's not a change in policy, more like a temporary pause while they sort out some minor things (the domestic legal challenges).

[+] AllNewTypeFace@leminal.space -50 points 1 month ago (3 children)

Israel will have to remind them of their eternal obligation

[–] gravitas_deficiency@sh.itjust.works 73 points 1 month ago (3 children)

And hopefully, the Germans will respond with something along the lines of “our eternal obligation to you does not give you carte blanche to perpetrate the same evil our forefathers perpetrated upon you”. But we’ll see, I guess. I am fully aware that it’s an understandably touchy subject in Germany.

[–] volvoxvsmarla@lemm.ee 26 points 1 month ago (3 children)

It's been such a shit show. Even my beloved tagesschau is just going fully blind on it. It's been a disgrace. Never again my ass.

It would have actually been a great opportunity to show where full support of Jewish people and support of a government differ. It was the perfect opportunity to back out of this card blanche idea which was too vague to be a good idea to begin with. Instead Germany decided to assume its citizens have no cognitive ability to differentiate these two ideas - Jewishnes and Israel.

[–] dlatch@lemmy.world 25 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

In the long run they are doing so much damage to the Jewish people. Effectively they're (and by they mean anyone who is shouting "antisemitism" now) creating a situation where you are either supportive of Israel's actions, or against Jews. It's such a destructive approach.

[–] Andromxda@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Deutsche Welle isn't much better btw. They still call it "Israel-Hamas war", although the Israeli fascist government has clearly shown that their highest priority is committing genocide against innocent Palestinian civilians, not fighting Hamas

[–] barsoap@lemm.ee 1 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

We also call it the Russo-Ukrainian war, and not the Russian genocide of Ukraine even though Russia's genocidal intent is clear as day. Sometimes choice of terminology has less meaning than you want it to have.

That said yes DW isn't going to call anything a genocide unless either the ICJ or the German federal government does. There's a reason they're not allowed to broadcast inside Germany, they're a state broadcaster, not a public one, and on top of that federal while broadcasting in Germany is 100% state matter. Their editorial independence is noticeable, but not infinite.

[–] unskilled5117@feddit.org 2 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (2 children)

Ich kann dir nur das aktuelle Interview der Lage der Nation mit Baerbock empfehlen. Es werden die Waffenlieferungen kritisch angesprochen. Ich finde es wichtig, ihre Position zu diesem Thema zu hören, um so die eigene Meinung besser bilden zu können. Hier der Link zur Online Version, falls kein Spotify genutzt wird.

[–] barsoap@lemm.ee 7 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

Basically: The stance of the government is much more nuanced than usually appreciated in Germany, much less the world,

What she didn't mention, and that's also part of the nuance, is that Germany basically dropped all support that can be dropped without leaving the Israeli moderates and the left-wing hung out to dry. And not just now, it only took a couple of days or weeks for much support to drop, after it became clear that the Kahanites are using the opportunity to get the genocide they always wanted. Which is, according to Germany's reading, against Israel's self-interest and therefore against Germany's interest. Fascism in general, just for the record, not just Kahanites.

It'd also be a hell of a nightmare for the chancellery to try to override bureaucrats in different ministries saying "well no we shouldn't because there's a not negligible probability that those weapons would be used in a genocide": Those bureaucrats are only doing their duty, following the law, analysing things as they're supposed to. Press would quickly get wind of it and all hell would descend upon the governing coalition. In more ways than one: Press and the people would be talking about topics that the government would rather not have anyone think or talk about loudly, because, well, nuance. You never want nuanced topics to be discussed loudly and heatedly, never ends well.

Switching countries: The same nuance and need for tact comes into play when it comes to not losing the deep ties into Israeli politics and civil society over knee-jerk moralising. There are a fuckton of Israelis out there protesting the government, don't want to lose them over not delivering air defence, they need all the support, moral or otherwise, that they can get. The Israeli left already lost enough Hippie Kibbutzim inhabitants in the September attacks (in case you ever wondered why the Israeli government gives less than a shit about the hostages: They're largely lefties). Artillery shells? Different topic.

[–] shaserlark@sh.itjust.works 2 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Sorry but this is way too apologetic considering how Germany has provided weapons, rhetorical and judicial cover for this ongoing genocide.

Germany still hasn’t backed away from their announcement that they would defend Israel in the ICJ and they still do not acknowledge neither that Israel is Apartheid regime nor that Israel is committing genocide. They are still violently cracking down on pro-Palestine protestors and they are still defunding NGOs that are anti-genocide. They are still not talking about what really needs to happen: a decolonization of Palestine.

The same goes for pretty much all public and private media outlets who are equally complicit in this horrendous state of things.

[–] barsoap@lemm.ee 2 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

Sorry but this is way too apologetic considering how Germany has provided weapons, rhetorical and judicial cover for this ongoing genocide.

Which weapons. Name them. I suppose sanctioning Kahanites is "rhetorical and judicial cover"?

defend Israel in the ICJ

Everyone needs a defence lawyer. Also Germany's line of arguing is more or less "These are clearly war crimes, but genocide? That requires intent".

They are still violently cracking down on pro-Palestine protestors

There were and are plenty of pro-Palestine protests in Germany. Yes, there's also police force used -- what do you expect, if some people start out a protest by setting trash cans on fire, that the police turns a blind eye because they're protesting genocide? Doesn't work like that in Germany. And then certain people with certain interests take those kinds of instances and spin it into "Germany is violently cracking down on the pro-Palestine movement" instead of "Germany doesn't really have much of a taste for breaches of public order". We're not France where burning trash cans are considered sporting.

and they are still defunding NGOs that are anti-genocide

And also still funding them. Maybe this whole thing is, you know, a bit more nuanced than you are willing to acknowledge.

[–] shaserlark@sh.itjust.works 2 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

There you go: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-68737412

Last year, the European nation's weapons sales to Israel were worth €326.5m ($361m; £274m), external - a 10-fold increase compared with 2022 - with the majority of those export licences granted after the 7 October attacks. The German government said in January that the sales comprised €306.4m worth of military equipment and €20.1m of "war weapons". According to the DPA news agency, external, the latter included 3,000 portable anti-tank weapons and 500,000 rounds of ammunition for automatic or semi-automatic firearms. It also said that most of the export licences were granted for land vehicles and technology for the development, assembly, maintenance and repair of weapons.

Israel has their own lawyers they can defend themselves. Germany didn’t need to step in, they did anyway because of the Staatsräson and basically all mainstream parties and media are Zionist.

By now it’s very clear that Israel is committing genocide, the courts are gonna need a long time to finish the processes but it’s really not disputed anywhere except Germany and in the Zionist mass media in general.

As for the rest, I just see a lot of mental gymnastics to justify beating up or defunding people and organizations who go against the political mainstream. The police does the same against climate protestors and does nothing when literal Nazis are marching. People like you who are trying to justify this behavior are the useful idiots.

[–] barsoap@lemm.ee 1 points 1 month ago

the latter included 3,000 portable anti-tank weapons

Not useful for a genocide, really.

and 500,000 rounds of ammunition for automatic or semi-automatic firearms

That was training ammunition. I'm kinda surprised to not see the "artillery rounds" in that list -- which weren't rounds, but propellant charges, and like a couple of handful because they were sent over for testing and development, not to the army but industry.

Israel has their own lawyers they can defend themselves.

No they can't because they're denying facts. That's not a defence strategy, that's digging your own hole.

As for the rest, I just see a lot of mental gymnastics to justify beating up or defunding people and organizations who go against the political mainstream.

Acknowledging that Israel is doing all kinds of shit is not "against the mainstream". Heck, watch DW news for a while it's full of Israeli war crimes. DW, in case you don't know, is run directly by the German federal government.

[–] volvoxvsmarla@lemm.ee 1 points 1 month ago

Danke, ich werds mir anhören!

[–] Mim@lemmy.zip 12 points 1 month ago (1 children)

our eternal obligation to you does not give you carte blanche to perpetrate the same evil our forefathers perpetrated upon you

I can guarantee you right now, that that sure will never be the response. In fact, that will get you labeled an antisemite.

[–] gravitas_deficiency@sh.itjust.works 24 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Which, bluntly, is absolutely insane, and betrays a fundamental (and for some, likely intentional) misunderstanding of the true intent and meaning of that eternal obligation, to the extent that it has deeply disturbing jingoistic echoes of the Nazi party itself.

[–] Maeve@kbin.earth 7 points 1 month ago

It's odd you mention jingoism, because I was surely thinking about jingoism and revanchism in this context, over the last couple of weeks.

[–] Bluefalcon@discuss.tchncs.de 2 points 1 month ago

Damn, hit him with the Swanton Bombs. Poor guy

[–] jonne@infosec.pub 12 points 1 month ago

Of never participating in genocide again, right?

[–] modifier@lemmy.ca 9 points 1 month ago

The best way to honor that obligation is to do everything possible to prevent the Israel government from following the path that led to that obligation. They honor the memory of those they slaughtered.