Can we be real for a minute though?

It's still better than not having it as an option.

By telegram existing, it diversifies the non private messaging landscape. It's obviously not better than actually secure and/or private services, but the more options that are out there, the less centralization there is, which is a net positive.

You just have to be aware of its limitations and don't use it for anything significant. In that regard it's no worse than something like discord.

You already covered the warnings about not trusting it for privacy or security, so that's really the beat you can do in informing people. Once you've done your due diligence for the people you care about, you gotta let them do what they're gonna do. It's either that or go hard and refuse to communicate on anything other than the services you deem best for your preferences and hope for the best

WIRE or Signal. Granted, convincing your people to move with you is like trying to get an act of Congress in play.

Is it true that Telegram doesn't encrypt group chats at all? Maybe that would get their attention?

My biggest criticism of Telegram (but not the only one) is that they use homebrew crypto. Of course, I don't know if your family would understand why that's bad.

e2ee chats are super annoying. They don't sync between desktop and mobile, so almost nobody will use them,

Even if I insist they do and create a secret chat, they'll message me back in an unencrypted chat because they changed to their other device.

This isn't an issue on Wire and Matrix

There are Ukrainian and Russian ties... AFAIK it's used heavily on both sides of the conflict. The founder had some commentary as to why the stance they've taken is the stance they've taken.

https://t.me/durov/266

His mother is also from Ukraine herself:

https://t.me/durov/272

... and Pavel is a French / UAE citizen (as additionally demonstrated by the French government holding him for questioning). The "Telegram is a Russian puppet" arguments are fairly weak.

How about: Signal is better? Though, they recently were caught with some unencrypted shit on the desktop client.

A solid privacy conscious youtuber, The Hated One, just published a video on this exact topic. It's very detail oriented and should be easy for anyone to follow along. Here's the link: https://youtube.com/watch?v=A8ZXDiQLH9I

People always going on about signal, but it still requires phone number, but never hear talk of threema, threema is reasonably solid choice for privacy.

Telegram is the best social network. Not so much a private messenger.

As for risks... http://kremlingram.org/ has the Russian ties well-documented, even if theystretch the evidence at times, the latest border cross leaks are proofs enough

It's a great idea for the Right! They're too stupid to notice that group chats are not encrypted and they conspire to commit crimes right out in the open. Don't take that away from us!

Quite simple: Telegram is not end-to-end encrypted by default, that means that they can read all your chats if they want to.

Better switch to Signal.

Telegram is not just IM. Open the search and search for channels. Get creative, they have keyword filters. City name is always a good start. Check the channels with ❄️ and 🍄 emojis. This is where people are scammed for drugs. Maybe sometimes not scams.

A lot happens on Telegram, and it's right behind that little search icon.