this post was submitted on 20 Aug 2024
34 points (87.0% liked)

Linux

48193 readers
1450 users here now

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Linux is a family of open source Unix-like operating systems based on the Linux kernel, an operating system kernel first released on September 17, 1991 by Linus Torvalds. Linux is typically packaged in a Linux distribution (or distro for short).

Distributions include the Linux kernel and supporting system software and libraries, many of which are provided by the GNU Project. Many Linux distributions use the word "Linux" in their name, but the Free Software Foundation uses the name GNU/Linux to emphasize the importance of GNU software, causing some controversy.

Rules

Related Communities

Community icon by Alpár-Etele Méder, licensed under CC BY 3.0

founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
 

Hi....

  • I don't know what to say in the introduction, but in brief I have some questions about Linux, which were formed after trying some distributions on DistroSea and observing Linux communities on the Internet. Can you help with the answer?
  1. I liked Gnome DE interface very much, but whenever I look at the empty workspace after closing an app , I feel that something is missing (sorry, I have been using Windows for almost 15 years). Is there an add on - or any other way - to install some apps on workspace? Or do I have to get used to it as it is ?

  2. I read that Linux is more problematic on laptops than on personal computers, is this true? If so...what are the usual problems and is there a way to avoid them?

  3. Are there any distributions that come with the minimum pre-installed apps ? ... I mean not even a video or music player

  4. If I want to delete a pre-installed app (let's say the default browser), can this be done easily or does it require root, like Android?

  5. Does rooting invalidate the system from obtaining updates?

  6. I read that switching DEs is easy... but how exactly is it done? Something in the settings, or downloading the interface independently, or customizing it to be similar to the other, or something else?

  7. Lazy question : What are wayland and docker? I see a lot of people mentioning them

  • Sorry for the many questions, and thanks in advance
top 20 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] Ephera@lemmy.ml 22 points 2 months ago
  1. Are there any distributions that come with the minimum pre-installed apps ? ... I mean not even a video or music player

You would not believe the obsession the Linux community has with minimal distros. Yes, there are many variants of "nothing" pre-installed.

Problem is, that many of the minimal distributions are more difficult to use, because they might not have a GUI, for example. Or they don't have handling for Bluetooth out of the box. Things like that.

For someone new to Linux, I would not recommend jumping straight to a minimal distro. The pre-installed apps are typically decent on Linux (like a recommendation by the folks who create the distro) and if you don't know much of the ecosystem yet, it's a good way to start learning about it.

If you do find, you really just don't need any video or music player, you can also separately uninstall them. Which, again, is easier than installing missing things that you never heard of.

[–] lord_ryvan@ttrpg.network 14 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)
  1. Conky widgets allow you to put some dynamic info on your desktop like hardware info, weather, RSS, etc. Also, Dash to Dock gives you a macOS like dock. Oh, and Gnome Tweaks allows you to customise your own Windows-like taskbar on the bottom, with application names and desktops.

  2. Only problem I've experienced is that the fingerprint reader didn't work on some laptops while it did on others. YMVM, just try a Live USB, I'd say.

  3. In my opinion they're not worth it, and you can uninstall anything you don't like, anyway.

  • Rooting in Android means you're always logged in as root (admin), often without password. This is unsafe. In Linux tasks can get rooted individually. This is safe (just don't give a bad task like a virus root-access) In a DE, like Gnome, some pop-up window will ask for your password if a task needs root. In a terminal, just add sudo in front of a command that needs root, and enter your password if the terminal asks.
  1. Yes, you can uninstall any pre-installed app, just right-click it on the menu, Gnome will ask for your password so it can root that one uninstall task! Or type sudo apt remove followed by that app's internal name, like sudo apt remove firefox!

  2. Not at all, it's the opposite! Since updates concern the whole system, system updates always require to run as root underwater!

  3. This depends on your login screen, but assuming Debian or Ubuntu: Install the other DE, usually you just need to sudo apt install some things. Then on the login screen, there's a button with an icon on the top-right of where you enter your password, just click that and choose the other DE. You can now switch DE anytime you log in!

  4. Lazy answer: Wayland and Docker

[–] solrize@lemmy.world 5 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)
  1. Like someone else said, try MATE, it is more like windows and even though I'm not a windows user, I find it less confusing than gnome.
  2. to some extent though maybe not as bad as before. Solution seems to be buy a Thinkpad since that's what more devs tend to use. I've stayed with that plan and haven't had much trouble, though at work I had an Acer laptop that also worked fine.
  3. Yes, I generally run Debian, including on small servers where there is not even a window manager (because no screen), much less a browser, music player, or anything like that.
  4. Generally stuff like that requires root, but root just means admin privs. It's normally protected by a password that you yourself choose when you install the OS. That is, the idea is that you own your computer and can do what you want with it, so of course you have root and can use it when needed. Android is the weird exception that breaks that model, transferring ownership of your phone to app vendors and keeping you out of the application data.
  5. No
  6. DE=desktop environment? Ermmm... maybe not so easy. Simplest might be separate user accounts for different DE's? Idk, I just use MATE though I've played with XMonad n the past.
  7. Wayland = relatively new window system (API through which applications show stuff on the screen), intended to replace X (older system). Docker = container system for wrapping an application and its dependencies in one package, to prevent the Linux version of "DLL hell". This is mostly used on servers as Linux's packaging systems tend to be better than Windows's and not get you into too much trouble, as long as you don't try to mix approaches on a single machine.
[–] PancakeBrock@lemmy.zip 4 points 2 months ago (1 children)

My answer for #2 is I have never personally had a problem with Linux on a laptop. Everything works as intended. The only funny thing was when I switched to Arch Linux took a little bit of work to get games to use my Nvidia GPU instead of the integrated one in my CPU. But that was maybe 30 minutes of googling and installing stuff off the AUR. When I ran pop_os it worked right out of the box. I believe pop has all of the Nvidia stuff installed and on Arch I just had to figure out what I needed. That problem was just from lack of experience.

My answer for #3 is I don't know but I've had fun testing different software out to find something that suits me. I want to say way back in the day Ubuntu had a bunch of stuff pre installed. But that was probably 2007 when I last used Ubuntu. On Arch you can just use the discover store to find stuff. If you can't find it there it's in the AUR.

#4 rooting on Linux isn't like rooting on Android. Android is built off Linux so to have "root" access is just like having administrator access or whatever on Windows. Android phones are more locked down so it's usually a pain to root (the manufacturer don't really want you to do it). On your own Linux computer you just use root access. For example on Arch in the terminal to do a full system update you have to use root access so you type "sudo pacman -Syu" in the terminal then it asks you for the sudo password or root password that you yourself setup on install. Sudo is the command that says hey I want to do this no questions asked.

#5 it's Linux you can do whatever you want. You can go through and destroy the entire os if you want.

I'm coming on a year being full time on Linux so that's about the best I can do answering your questions. I'm sure other people will explain stuff better. Good luck!

[–] cmnybo@discuss.tchncs.de 4 points 2 months ago (2 children)

Arch is about as minimal as you can get. You won't even have a text editor if you don't specifically install one. You won't be able to connect to the internet to install that text editor if you don't install the software to configure the network connection either. I made that mistake the first time I installed Arch.

[–] kionite231@lemmy.ca 3 points 2 months ago

Yeah It's a pain when in newly installed system there is no Internet and you have to boot off of USB again!

[–] PancakeBrock@lemmy.zip 1 points 2 months ago

I did a bunch of reading before jumping into Arch so I just used archinstall. Made it nice and easy.

[–] Shdwdrgn@mander.xyz 4 points 2 months ago (2 children)
  1. Have you looked at Mate Desktop? It's based off of an earlier version of Gnome but I find it much more familiar to the way things used to be managed on Windows.

  2. That's going to come down to the specific hardware. A lot of vendors build their devices to only work under Windows but there are a lot of smart Linux techs who have been able to reverse-engineer working drives. Your best bet is to find a hardware compatibility list and see how much support your particular laptop has.

  3. If you look at Debian, you can get the "net-install" image. This doesn't even install a desktop environment, it simply boots you to a command line and you can install whatever you want to use. Many other distributions probably have a similar installed available, it's just a matter of deciphering what the names mean.

  4. If you install something as root, or if it's installed by the system during the initial installation, then yes you'll need root, but more likely you will use "sudo" which gives your user account the temporary access needed (if it was set up with that access). Again, going back to something like Debian's net-install, everything except the core OS would be installed by you anyway.

  5. "Rooting" sounds like a term you brought from an Android phone. In desktop terms, think of the root user as being like the admin on Windows. You only use it when needed, like when you're performing a system update, otherwise you do everything under your regular user account.

  6. When you install a DE like Gnome, it also adds a login to your graphical interface. If you install a second DE, then on the login screen you are presented a choice as to which one you want to use this time. If you want to switch, you just log out and select another one from the login screen. You can have as many as you want, just remember that this loads a ton of extra stuff on your system. It's ok to play with, but then I would suggest uninstalling the ones you don't like.

  7. Wayland is the core of the DE. The previous system was Xorg, but both are still in common use. Docker is a container system, so like if you wanted to install a web server then Docker would contain all of the modules for that software independently of anything else you have installed. This means that a system update is less likely to break something (although that's already pretty unlikely), but it does require more storage space.

[–] chottomatte@lemdro.id 1 points 2 months ago

Yes , I tested it on Ubuntu mate and Mint mate , but I didn't like it and honestly don't want something Windows-like , one of the reasons why I'm thinking about moving to Linux - when it's possible - is to try something new and far from windows , I don't mind some similarities, of course, but Mate is more similar than I want

[–] variants@possumpat.io 1 points 2 months ago (1 children)
  1. The net install would that allow you to then install for example firefox and run the gui like normal?
[–] Shdwdrgn@mander.xyz 2 points 2 months ago

Sure. You install your DE first, and then start installing software like browsers, email, etc. The net install disk is just a barebones system to get you up and running and then you install whatever you need from there. If you're building a desktop them you might want a DE. If you're building a server then you might want web or email services. The basic installation can be expended to include everything you want for that particular machine.

The advantage of using a pre-configured full setup is that you don't need to know the name of all the packages you want to install, and typically you can still remove the ones you don't like. Even with the DE you will probably find that the package also installs a number of common tools like task bar widgets or file managers. So in making a truly custom system you will have to hit google quite a bit to find the things you want to install, but then you learn what all those various packages actually do. Even the GUI login screen has multiple choices to select from which give you different ways of managing the logins. That's one of the things most people really enjoy about linux -- almost every type of software has multiple choices (like Firefox vs Chrome) so it's easy to build up a desktop that suits your particular needs.

[–] Veraxis@lemmy.world 3 points 2 months ago
  1. I don't know much about gnome, sorry!

  2. The main issues to watch out for are driver issues related to certain peripherals like fingerprint scanners, SD card readers, and certain oddball wifi chipsets. Hybrid graphics with both integrated CPU graphics and a dedicated GPU can lead to poor battery life in some systems such as many gaming laptops. In my experience, Linux runs fine on every laptop which I have tried it with, including 2 with hybrid Nvidia graphics. I'm also 2 for 2 on SD card readers and 3/3 on wifi cards as well, despite no prior research on my part.

  3. Arch Linux sounds like it would be the closest to what you are describing. Or try out one of the more preconfigured versions like Endeavour OS or Arcolinux, as the install process for Arch can be a bit involved for someone new to Linux.

  4. Usually not difficult so long as something is not a hard dependency for some other piece of software. Running something as root in Linux is as simple as typing "sudo" before a command and entering your root password

  5. No. Per the above, elevated user privileges are permitted as a normal part of using Linux and do not require you to hack or bypass the OS's security mechanisms like in Android or iOS.

  6. If you install more than one, depending on your login manager it is usually as simple as a dropdown menu to select which DE you want to use when logging in.

  7. Wayland is a window manager/GUI system used in Linux. It has been getting a lot of discussion lately because the Linux community is gradually shifting from the longstanding but now unmaintained X11 system to Wayland. You probably don't need to worry about it.

[–] BaumGeist@lemmy.ml 3 points 2 months ago (1 children)

I suggest reading through multiple answers despite everyone answering all your questions, this way you get the most complete answers. As such, here's my two cents:

  1. Yes, search for "Widgets" at Gnome's official website to see: https://extensions.gnome.org/

  2. Depends on what you mean by "problematic"? My laptop refused to go to sleep because of a setting in the wifi card, but once I changed it I haven't had any issues. You may also find that some of your hardware is nonstandard, and therefore requires extra steps during installation.

  3. What do you mean "minimum"? Because I installed Debian headless, and starting with nothing but a command-line and the system utilities and nothing else installed is what I heard, but maybe in your mind it just means a graphical desktop and nothing more. If you did mean that, you could try something like MATE for your desktop environment, or XFCE if you want to learn by customizing. If you're feeling really adventurous, use SwayWM

  4. Depends on how it came installed, but generally it's easy. Most of the time, starting out it will be as easy as running the uninstall command for whatever package management software installed it.

  5. "Rooting" a device refers to installing untrusted firmware on SoC devices. Unless your laptop is a chromebook, you probably don't need to worry about that. Dual-booting Windows and Linux won't stop Windows from updating, nor stop whatever application manages your firmware from working in Windows, if that's what you're worried about.

  6. It depends on your distro and its package manager(s). In Debian it's as easy as sudo apt install <Desktop Environment> and then logging out, changing which DE you're logging into, and then logging back in. Most are going to be that way

  7. Lazy answer: don't worry about it, and don't worry about it. If you're the type who wants their PC to "just work," it's behind-the-scenes stuff that will never apply to you. If you're prepared to get down in the weeds, occasionally break things, and customize every aspect of your OS, then you'll learn when it's relevant. If you're saying "Lazy question" and not showing that you already did some research on the topics, you're most likely in the former camp; this isn't a value judgment, just an observation.

But, since we're all still nerds here regardless of what we're nerdy about, and since learning almost never hurts, I'll throw some vocab at you to get you started:

Wayland is a specification of how software should display things on the screen, it's the generic blueprints of how Display Servers and their Clients should behave; Wayland is seeking to replace the X Window System specification, and specifically the popular Xorg Server implementation.

Docker is a containerization platform (software ecosystem). Containers are essentially a small subset of Virtual Machines (or VMs) which are Guest operating systems that run within a separated off environment from your Host operating system. On Linux, features like namespaces, cgroups, and chroots are used to achieve this effect. Containers tend to use less hardware than Hypervisor-hosted VMs, but also tend to be single-purpose systems.

[–] chottomatte@lemdro.id 1 points 2 months ago

I actually read all the comments, and I'm thankful to everybody here for answering

[–] Magnolia_@lemmy.ca 3 points 2 months ago
  1. Find a gnome tweak/extension for it.
  2. Plug and play. Fedora, Opensuse, Ubuntu.
  3. Arch derivatives I believe.
  4. Easily.
  5. Root here is the superused, like admin.
  6. Its not recommended to switch DEs of the same distro as you may encounter problems. Better see witch DE and distro you like and download it.
  7. Wayland is a window management standard, all serious distros use it. Docker is a technology and encapsulates all the components to run an instance of an OS for certain specific tasks. Docker is cross OS(works in all OSs)
[–] Steamymoomilk@sh.itjust.works 2 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

1.Theres dash to dock extentions to make it have a task bar like windows or mac, aswell as wigets for the top bar.

  1. It is mostly true, some obscure laptops dont have everything working out of the box for alot of distros. And require lots of tinkering with drivers and kernel modules.

3.if you want to go ultra bear bones, theres alpine linux thats alot like android, but doesnt run android and is usally used for network appliances. Aswell as arch linux which installs base packages and is completely bare bones.

Then theres the manual side of linux There gentoo which is a source distro, meaning everything is built from source code and must be manually enabled and setup. Its great for low power hardware but you need to read alot of documents on the wiki.

Then theres the F all Linux from scratch, It is what you think.

  1. Usually you need root to uninstall, packages unless its flatpak.

5.No root is the first account made on your system without root being made nothing would work its the equivalent of system 32 for windows.

  1. Switching DE is super simple. Find which one you want in your package manager and install that package. After that when you get to the login page it should show up in the sessions tab or gear icon for gnome. And simple select your DE and login.

  2. Wayland is a new display protocal that fixes and improves on previous technology such as x11 and xorg. Docker is Containerization The best way to explain it is. Your main distro is a truck and a docker container is having a linux distribution in a box. Docker containers are usually purpose built for services which run a preconfigured distribution for that purpose.

Also no problem helping out other, we all gotta start somewhere!

[–] Kongar@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 2 months ago
  1. there are things called gnome extensions that change things up.
  2. it’s just that a lot of laptops are potatoes with wierd hardware and drivers aren’t always available. If you have a popular laptop you’ll have better luck. Can’t predict how it’ll go other than goggling your laptop and seeing if you can find a post saying what worked and didn’t. Can’t hurt to try either way…
  3. yes. There are plenty with installed apps. Hard to believe you didn’t find any music or video players. Either way - doesn’t matter. Install VLC and it plays everything.
  4. most Linux distributions will let you delete Linux itself if you’re so inclined. My vote is to just leave the default programs that install with the distro unless you’re in need of an absolute bare bones system/size (which it doesn’t sound like you are)
  5. root is a user, nothing more. If you don’t know why you’re using root, then don’t. Based on your questions, I’d say you can do everything you need as a normal user with sudo privileges.
  6. to be honest I’ve never actually done this. I believe you can even install multiples at once and switch between them. Most distros come with a choice of DE during install. Check them out in a vm and just install the one you want. If you’re hell bent on swapping on an existing install, best read a guide on how to do it for your distro.
  7. this isn’t exactly right, but docker is kind of like virtual machines. Not quite full on VMs, but rather they are called containers. You can download a docker image, and fire up say, a pihole server. Or in my case, I run a preconfigured ubiquity WiFi controller. Don’t worry about these for now - it’s a later thing. Wayland is replacing X. Some distros use it, some don’t. X is very old - it’s stable and doesn’t get updates and just works. Until it doesn’t because it’s old and doesn’t get updates. Enter Wayland. New things of that complexity are hard to make so there’s bugs with it. Works for some people, not for others. Go watch some YouTube videos on the topic - it’s interesting.

Good luck!

[–] Presi300@lemmy.world 2 points 2 months ago
  1. GNOME has an entire extension ecosystem. Look up "gnome extension manager" on flathub.

  2. Yes, Linux can be more problematic on some laptops. Especially ones with realtek wifi/Bluetooth or Nvidia/Intel hybrid graphics.

  3. Yes, try EndeavorOS.

  4. Linux gives you the full power to delete whatever, whenever. You can delete anything and everything you want without needing any workarounds.

  5. No. Linux by default gives you root access. It's a thing you just get. In fact you need it to update most* distros. You don't need to "root" Linux. Root privileges are a given on most distros.

  6. Install the other DE's package from your distro's repos, logout and the login interface should have an option to change your DE, the next time you login.

  7. It's... Complicated. TL;DR Wayland is the more modern display server that most distros and desktops are in the process of moving to. I'd suggest using it over X11, wherever possible. As for docker, that doesn't really matter for desktop use.

[–] BCsven@lemmy.ca 1 points 2 months ago

#3 as an example is you installed OpenSUSE, there is a summary screen to review before commiting to the install, instead of Next/OK click software text, it brings you to pattern install check boxes (for installing entire sets of packages) but you can click details and brings you to all packages. Uncheck all, and just check the packages you do want (dependencies with get auto added) . Install the minimal setup.

[–] boredsquirrel@slrpnk.net 1 points 2 months ago
  1. ElementaryOS places the app menu there

  2. Suspend resume is the main one. Power management may be another. For example USB ports could be turned off, the CPU scheduler could be changed to powersave, network speed reduced, and a lot more These are always different though and 90% fine.

  3. Fedora Atomic Desktops are great here. The goal is a minimal base OS for running Flatpak apps (or container stuff) on. They are a bit too minimal for me poorly, uBlue uses these desktops and adds more packages, most notably hardware support (like asus, nvidia, surface)

  4. Android is extremely different from traditional distros.

It uses A/B-root with 2 immutable system partitions, where the system apps are. That storage space can only be used by the system so uninstalling stuff there doesnt do anything useful, if you dont also install system apps there. Which is not normally possible.

On Android, a minimal system like on GrapheneOS is best. All other editions, Googles own PixelOS included, break the Android security model of sandboxing all apps, which is hillarious. Only GrapheneOS really follows it by also sandboxing the optional Google apps and services.

On traditional Linux distros, the system is just a bunch of packages slammed onto a disk, and a package manager doesnt know how the setup should look like. It only knows that package A also requires packages B, C, X, 1, 2 and there are often package groups like kde-plasma-desktop that automatically install packages D, E, F, G for example.

Uninstalling an app may remove dependencies, and if the app is not a dependency of others, it works without issues.

This is only system packages. With Flatpaks, Snaps, Appimages or binaries (like the Firefox .tar.gz archive Mozilla officially offers) you can install and uninstall whatever you want.

On "immutable" distros, that use many different variants of reducing the mess of traditional distros, this is different. On Fedora Atomic Desktops, which (maybe apart from NixOS, which is more complicated) use the best method of this composed system, you can rpm-ostree override remove a package and it is removed from the "immutable" system. But there are no immutable distros I think, all allow changes by root users.

Root on Android is different than on Linux. You can use Linux without root, but distros are not built for that. I am working on making Fedora capable of that, even though my change for flatpaks was rejected poorly.

On Linux by default you are a wheel/sudo user and can run commands with root privileges by just entering your user password. Thus, the barrier for programs to get root access is pretty low, and you should always try to make your system update on its own, and have a user not in the wheel (most distros) / sudo (debian) group.

  1. No, rooting on Android is very very different. On Linux you have root access and can control this with sudo configuration, polkit rules and user groups.

You can create custom groups like "the flatpak group is allowed to install apps of this specific format, even though it might normally require root access".

  1. Package managers have package groups, most distros have groups for an entire DE. Just install one package group and install another.

On Fedora Atomic desktops, the system is composed into "images", more like Android. The system is separate from the user stuff (your home directory, user configurations) and you can swap to a different image by "rebasing".

This is way more stable than the oldschool package manager way. For example you can rebase from silverblue (GNOME) to kinoite (KDE Plasma).

  1. Wayland is a modern and sleek protocol for apps to display stuff on the screen, read stuff from the screen, capture input (like keyboard, camera, audio) and more. It handles access of apps to what you allow it, and it fundamentally more clean and controlled than X11, which is the old display protocol.

For example, X11 allows any app, no matter if in the foreground or not even displaying a window, to log all your keyboard inputs, all the time.

Docker is a tool to use small "containers", which is a set of files that build an operating system. The files are the ones you normally find as the system stuff of an OS, but in a reduced form, and without the kernel (the main hardware interface and controller). Containers run on your system kernel, but in a different "system". If you run apps there, they run in the container and not on your system. This ensures that apps compatible with that container run on all systems, that support running the container manager (podman or docker).

Podman is an alternative to docker that is supposedly more secure.

Containers are used by lazy devs to not need to fiddle with all the different Linux system configuations anymore. They help to get new software more easily and faster updates. Flatpak also uses containers.

But they are also bigger, use more RAM (it is a small extra system!) and are outside of the control of the OS. Updates also work strange, containers are images that are never updated from inside it (like a traditional distro) but as a whole by the container manager.

This means they may be outdated or insecure. There are tools to update containers and to check for CVEs (critical vulnerabilities) in them.

As a desktop user, you should normally not need to use containers. Their UX (user experience) kinda suck and they are not a good way to get apps.

Distrobox is a small exception. It uses podman or docker under the hood, and allows to install containers of other Linux Distros on a different Distro. For example if an app only runs on Ubuntu, you can use it on Fedora anyways.

On Fedora Atomic Desktops, Distrobox helps to install some apps that are not yet flatpaks. But the user experience is still worse, for example system upgrades dont work and you need to replace the container and reinstall the apps when upgrading it.

Using a rolling distro container like Arch, OpenSUSE Tumbleweed, Debian Sid, OpenSUSE Slowroll, helps here. But apart from OpenSUSE Slowroll I wouldnt use them.