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I've had this happen quite a few times to me, and I've come to the best question for this.
"Do you want to just vent or would you like advice?"
Some people just need to get it off their chest and talk to something, IT professionals call this The Rubber Duck Effect, helps them work through the problem by explaining it to someone else. Asking if they'd like advice or just vent lets you know what kinds of questions to ask. You do still need to be listening but hopefully this helps!
Bingo. Just ask if they want an ear or to help solve a problem
I've not heard it called The Rubber Duck Effect, but I do this quite often. Usually end the conversation with "Well, I answered my own question, never mind".
Gender is somewhat relevant here-- according to my women studies course in uni. When women are describing a problem, they don’t usually want solutions. They want support, understanding, & sympathy, contrary to the typical male response which is to give advice & propose solutions, which then has a good chance of ending badly.
Input from a clinical psychologist and therapist: That's true but leaves out the fact that everybody responds better to validation (just like you described for women) unless they ask for advice or a solution. I'll also say--this time only anecdotally--that even men requesting advice and answers often benefit much more from validation, especially when advice would not be helpful.
To add another part on from another clinical psychologist/therapist: it seems like sometimes just assuming what the person is looking for validation or help can cause some problems one way or the other. Sometimes just asking directly what they are looking for is worthwhile. It can be a beneficial exercise in clarifying expectations and takes out chance for a "wrong" (used VERY loosely) choice of approach or possibly missed signals. Personally and anecdotally, it seems to bring more awareness into the equation for everyone involved overtime (if doing so with a partner/friend/family member/etc.).
Is this really true that men aren't looking for this same validation or do they just generally vent less because generally speaking men have fewer close friendships and maybe are less used to having anyone to vent to? Just thinking out loud
Idk, tbh in my experience, men can do both at the same time. It usually goes like
"Duuude (some shitty news)"
"Damn dude that sucks, why (did that happen, etc)"
"I think blah blah blah"
"Damn, did you try yadda yadda?"
"Yeah and this happened, can you believe that shit?!"
"That sucks, I'd (blank). What're you gonna do?"
(Cont..)
It just feels all like one cohesive conversation yet both sides are present, the helping side and the listening side. Unfortunately I can only do this with my male friends, with my ~Fe~ woman (Haha! Almost got me to say the F word. Leaving "male" though since none of us give a single shit about that) friends, because even though I'd have to listen to give advice at all one precludes the other to them, I just have to end up basically saying "Damn. That sucks. Wow. No shit? Damn. Fuck that!" Really stimulating conversation (I say with the utmost sarcasm) but at least they perceive me as a good listener (even though I was a good listener all along, but this way their perception reflects that lol.)
Like, I have one friend, she moved out of state but she still calls to catch up about 1x weekly, and I know a lot about her life but all she knows about mine is "Damn. That sucks. Wow. No shit? Damn. Fuck that!" as she vents about work or her boyfriend (to another guy, and we have a bit of a history, tbh he would prob be mad if he knew but I've only met him once, so what can I do about it), or talks about her plants, until she gets home from her drive from work and says she's got to go inside. In her mind, we have great conversations, yet in mine they're usually barely conversations they're so one sided.
I'm not mad about it (I actually think it's funny, and I have my own people to talk to so I don't "need" her for that or anything crazy), but I do think the other comments are right that it's a difference in how our brains work, or possibly how we perceive that advice, or how we perceive who is giving that advice. I think (in my experience anyway, since that's what I'm made of) it seems like my male friends take it more as help for real (and assume I offered it because I care, at that), whereas women in my life take the advice not as "help" but as an insinuation that they are incapable of figuring the problem out for themselves, which is of course not my intention (but that's why if any woman wants my advice she unfortunately has to explicitly ask for it. I know that's hard to ask for advice sometimes but I miss social cues a lot so it's just safer for everyone this way, less women mad at me lol, shitsux for an ADHD guy accused of but not diagnosed with autism haha. Men I'll just talk to like regular though, they dgaf about shit lol.)
It depends on a thousand factors, but in general a good approach is show that you're listening, and that you care. Sometimes trying to comfort them is good, but this depends so much on the person and situation that it's hard to generalise.
If they're venting and don't want advice, just show fellow feeling.
For me, one reason that I get frustrated with advisors is that they offer level one of advice when I've already tried levels one - three hundred of solutions. I feel slightly condescended to, and then I have to tactfully explain why their solution isn't feasible. Then I end up feeling like a dick for shooting down their help. Or, I can nod, smile, say thanks, that's a good idea, and walk away still feeling unheard and misunderstood.
Personally, I find that people are most in need of someone to listen to them and validate their feelings. Don’t have to fix it. That was always a mistake I made in the past. I’m a fixer. If I see a problem, it’s my problem and I need to fix it. Just listen and be supportive.
Depending on your relationship with the person, it’s also sometimes okay to challenge distortions or exaggerations. My partner has started doing that for me and it’s been really helpful to reframe my problems.
That last part is what I struggle with as someone whose mind always tries to see things from opposing perspectives whether I want it to or not.
Sometimes my wife will come home pissed off about something one of her coworkers said. She’ll tell me the story and I have learned the hard way that “I think your coworker had a point, because X” is not what she wants to hear from me.
Yeah I have this problem too. If I'm missing something, I want someone to point it out to me. I never feel like my feelings need to be validated if they aren't rooted in reality.
It is definitely situational; someone coming home frustrated and venting, probably not the time to offer suggestions or counterpoints; but a casual conversation when hanging out, then folks are willing to discuss if something was right or wrong.
I learned this the hard way from my wife over many years…
Generally listening is best but there’s no universal answer to a question like this. People are complex. Some people want to be consoled, some people want feedback, some people want to be challenged, etc
But a general first line of defense is hear them out, comfort when appropriate, and don’t make it about you (“oh that’s crazy it’s like this one time I…”)
Just say contextually appropriate listening-interjections that validate their feelings. Things like, “WTF?” “Rude!” “How awful,” “Oof that’s stressful,” a disapproving hmmm, etc.
Imagine you’re a dustpan without a bottom: the dust of their venting gets swept in, but falls right back out without sticking to anything. Most importantly, don’t try to fix their feelings. That’s not your job. Your job is to meet them where they are, as they are. (And if, for whatever reason, you can’t, I’ve used the phrasing of, “I’m really sorry, but I can’t be a good audience for that. Do you need suggestions for finding other support?”)
This. I try to agree along for a bit. Often, once people get it out they're able to laugh a little, so when it gets close to the end (theirs or mine) i usually say something like, "Those MF bastards!! Do they even know who they're dealing with?!"
The main thing is that you don't pull attention. Don't try to share stories about similar things you've gone through immediately, start like others have said - noises that indicate you're listening. Look up reflective listening skills and do those things.
If they seem to want advice, you can ask, "Hey, I don't wanna give you any advice if you don't want it. I can keep just listening, but your (pause / frustration / whatever) makes it seem like you might be looking for a possible solution ..." And then see what they say.
I think listening behaviors are quite culturally based as well. For example:
Here in the Appalachian mountains, suppose two guys are talking to each other, perhaps both leaning on a fence. The guy who is listening doesn't watch the speaker the entire time. They don't make occasional noises either.
My buddy asks if I want to hear a story about some trouble he had recently with a neighbor. I nod and look at him "Yea". He then proceeds to look forward, out across the field and I do the same. Buddy says something that I support, like what he did that started the trouble. I nod, quietly, or even make that "this is ok" face. If I make that face, it's like saying "That makes sense to me, nothing unreasonable about that". Unless he says something that you know he expects support for, then you just motionlessly stare into the foreground.
If he tells me something the neighbor did that angered him, I will look at him and make the astonished face, he will look at me and nod, then he verbally confirms it as we go back to staring at the field. He will go on about it some, and I will quietly lower my head a little and shake it back forth to show my disbelief in how crappy his neighbor is.
Then whatever conclusion he comes up with, I'll either say, "hell yeah, that's what I'd do" or "whoa I dunno about all that now" or something similar. The cues for listening and the correct responses to them will vary probably within subcultures.
"Uh huh" "Yeah" "Wow" "Uh oh" "Daaamn..." and "Holy fuck!" are my general go-tos.
"I haven't pooped in 3 days"
"That's rough buddy."
For more useful advice, see all the other comments.
Very helpful if your friend’s girlfriend turned into a moon.
I think the best response is to acknowledge their feelings, like "that must've sucked" "yeah I can see how that is frustrating", because that is usually what venting is about, to have someone sympathise with you so you don't bottle it all up.
I don't know if it's the "right" thing to do, if there's ever one right thing... But I usually offer something that validates their feelings, like "That really sucks," or "They sound like a jerk." Only if it's someone I know well and I can read what they're looking for, I might then comfort, offer advice, or talk about something to cheer them up.
I find that it's good to ask questions that allow them to vent further.
Ask them. "You sound angry/sad/frustrated" are you just wanting to vent? Because I can relate to that feeling and I'm all ears."
I agree with most of the posts here. It's best to just listen and try to mirror imo. However I find it can be so difficult because I don't want to ..... Sound like a bot. Like I don't want to just keek saying the same thing over and over or just repeat their words.
"I'm sorry this happened." "That really sucks."
I end up feeling like an NPC with 3 dialogue choices being spammed.
But otherwise I do try my best just to simply listen and sympathize.
Asking them some genuine non-confrontational questions about their feelings or possible solutions to the situation usually works fine for me. I feel like people often vent about situations where they feel kinda helpless. Questions from you could help them not only to feel seen/heard, but also to switch to a more “proactive” state of mind where the source of venting could start looking like a problem with possible solutions.
Other times people just want to vent for the sake of venting and want no input from you whatsoever. Just let them.
Listen and be supportive. If you feel the need to solve, of think they are looking for a solution, ask. "Are you venting or looking for advice?"
It is really important to ask before offering advice/solutions, because doing so can make someone feel like you are trivializing their problem, or that they can't solve it themselves.
If you feel the need to solve, of think they are looking for a solution, ask. "Are you venting or looking for advice?"
"Would you like a hug, or a solution?
Empathy over sympathy definitely helps. I've learned to just keep my mouth shut because I want to help fix things or provide some logic.
I've heard something recently that can help.
If you aren't sure you can ask the person do you want me to offer advice, get mad on your behalf, or just listen.
Obviously depends how well you know the person, but you can consider what they normally want. I don't have a more elegant way of asking though.
I think it’s generally best to just empathize and validate their feelings. My go to is “that sounds really frustrating” or just repeat back their feelings. I’d in their vent they say they are sad, repeat back “that seems like it would be sad”
Depending on you’re relationship with them, I think you can first validate, but then ask “what are you going to do” or “how are you going to handle it”
You can also ask “are you just wanting to vent or do you also want advice”
But unsolicited advice is rarely appreciated. Opinions are like assholes, everyone has one and everyone things everyone else’s stinks.
Lots of great responses so far. I like to go with:
I hear you
Obviously they know my ears work but I want them to know that I am focused and connected.
You should react, at least lol. But you need to consider that most folks aren’t looking for advice. Rather, they need a validation of their experience.
Better to say “Wow, that really sucks” or “That’s crazy!”.
Maybe ask a followup question the to show that you’re listening, “well, what happened after?” or “what are going to do next?” End with “Thanks for sharing that with me, I know it’s not easy”.
Do not say, “you should try X or Y” unless they explicitly ask.
It’s a weird concept for me, cause when my wife vents - I hear a problem and I want to offer solutions. But I gotta fight that instinct.
I hear a problem and I want to offer solutions. But I gotta fight that instinct.
I'm curious how much of that is instinct vs. cultural programming. I used to be the same way. My partner would tell me about something that has aggravated her during her day and my first instinct was to think of ways to fix whatever it was and not just listen and be supportive. But that's the exact opposite as the conversations I might have with my buddy would go. When he tells me about a problem, I just listen and if he pauses for a verbal response, I ask him how he handled it, not give him advice on how I would handle it.
So is that a primal bias or a cultural one? Does it come from some sort of deep genetic behavioral coding that we much protect our female mate? I'm certainly not able to answer that with any authority, but my gut says it's learned behavior. I've since let go of that desire to fix. And for me, it's much more satisfying to always listen as support and learning without seeing it as a task. That's the default. I don't even think about a solution unless I'm specifically asked.
Yeah.
Helping when someone has a problem is a predisposition among all people. How we help - whether it’s active listening or task assistance is the question. Whether those tendencies are genetics or learned behavior is anyone’s guess. All I know is that it’s observable behavior. Enough to make a few silly standup comedy bits over.
Learning to not fix every problem is one of the most counterintuitive things a dude can do to better their relationships. 🤷
I find that it's best to speak minimally. Let them speak, that's why they're venting. If you do speak, you should avoid inserting your own opinions or your experiences, because that could come off as derailing the conversation or changing the subject. If you do speak, it should be to encourage them to continue speaking their mind.
Once they get it all out of their system, I think that's the point when you can really start to offer your thoughts and respond to what they said
It depends on the person, but what you definitely shouldn't do is disagree or try to correct them. Not because they can't be wrong, but because they came to you to have someone hear their problems. I think advice should be given later, in a different conversation, or if asked for. Agreement or confirmation that you're listening and understand are best.
Now if they aren't sharing their problems, but are instead just ranting at you about something you disagree with, feel free to tell them how dumb they are.
I'm not sure if I should say anything to comfort OP in some way.
I don't think there's really any one universal best answer, really. I agree with the idea that mirroring is the most fundamental answer. I try to ask questions too, where appropriate.
I always ask "do you want help with that?"
If they're talking nonstop, they don't want input. If they're not, this is the question I ask. Most of the time they just want to be heard, but not always.
Lots of excellent answers here but I just wanted to add that a therapist explained to me that there are active listeners and passive listeners and people generally fit one category over another. I’m an active listener: you tell me something is wrong and I’m going to try and help you fix it. Even the unfixable. This can be useful in a lot of situations, but it can also be off putting for the “complainer” if they’re just looking to get something off their chest. Some people need to vent more than others. They simply need to say the words and get it out there and they’re not asking for a solution. It can seem insensitive when an active listener tries to interject with fixes.
On the other side are the passive listeners, like my partner. I complain to him and he doesn’t try and help me fix the situation, he simply listens to me rant and gives me a hug, or a “that’s shit”. I used to find it really frustrating when I was younger because I’m kind of type A - I always want to be doing something, anything to feel a bit more in control. I interpreted his passive listening as being uncaring which wasn’t the case.
Understanding what type of listener I was and learning to identify (or ask if in doubt) what the person complaining was looking for, really improved my relationships. I still don’t find passive listening particularly easy but I’m much better at it now. And if I’m complaining to someone and they don’t react the way I wanted/was expecting I’m not at all annoyed with them, I just speak to someone else who I know is more like to be an active listener or whatever it is I need at the time. We can’t be all things to all people, and no one person can meet all of your needs all of the time. And that’s ok.
Your best course of action is typically going to be active listening and being a sounding board. Don't try to give advice or analyze the situation unless they specifically ask you to and simply affirm their feelings.