The US EV market is only stalling because the lobbyist are purposefully crippling development, the manufacturers are circlejerking each other, and every foreign brand either has no interest in selling in the US, or is banned from doing so
this post was submitted on 20 Jul 2024
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[Dormant] Electric Vehicles
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Fucking protectionism.
You're probably cheering on the outsourcing of techworkers too, right? Who cares about the safety of the people building the things we want to buy cheaply, right?
Protectionism can go too far and often does, but it isn't unnecessary for healthy societies. Free, unregulated trade isn't always the right answer.
Unlike all the safety violations, stagnant wages, and corners cut by companies in this country?
Correct, unlike that.
Worse than that, actually.
Protectionism is almost always because domestic automakers get complacent in their corner of the world and don't want to innovate to compete. See how Harley Davidson benefitted from Reagan's policies in limiting the imports of foreign bikes to the US. Ever since then almost all their bikes have looked like they've been stuck in the 1950s yet cost like how inflation would be like 20 years from now. Using underpaid American workers as an excuse to bring on these tariffs and bans just doesn't convince me if we haven't been innovating to improve technology or lower costs at the same time.
People want communities. They want healthy communities. Protectionism can facilitate healthy communities.
Innovation at all costs is not what society in general wants. This is abundantly clear throughout history and modern society.
Ehhhhh, a lot of it is “highway safety standards”
Standards that trucks are exempt from and don't measure up to European standards?
A big portion of the market in the US is from foreign brands. The only domestic companies are Tesla, Rivian, GM, and Ford. The rest is Hyundai, Kia, VW, BMW, Toyota, etc. China isn't banned from selling here but like in Europe, has a tariff because they're trying to manipulate the market with unsustainable subsidies for their own national brands at the exclusion of everyone else.
Development isn't being crippled. No one wants to develope because China makes them so much cheaper.
Anyone who thinks EVs aren't the future is wrong. But anyone who thinks there's not a rightful lull in the EV market is also wrong.
All the early adopters are already onboard. Next are the people who are inclined towards EVs but need to be convinced they're ready. There aren't chargers everywhere, they're slow to charge compared to pumping gas, there isn't yet a universal plug, and battery technology needs to improve. Until these issues are addressed adoption is going to be incremental.
They're also just more expensive. And everyone is already balking at current car prices.
More expensive upfront, negating all of the benefit of lower power costs for years. And huge expense on the horizon with an uncertain timing for battery replacement that negates secondary market value at some point.
All that extra expense up front usually needs to be financed. This also cuts into the long-term benefits via interest.
Edit: ex., I went to car and driver to find a comparable ICE and BEV. The Genesis Electric G80 is $21,225 more expensive than its ICE counterpart. Offered 4.9% interest on that amount only is an extra $3k over a five year term.
This brings the [financed period] monthly BEV premium to $400/mo, in just one example. I personally don’t use anywhere near that much gas, and my break even in this case would be closer to ten years. The entry level electric Hyundai Kona is only $10K more and will get you down the road about 190 miles before needing a charge.
Exactly.
The sad thing is that for lots of people charging can wind up being more expensive than gas. Especially if you don't have the ability to charge at home.
We experienced this testing an EV on a road trip. We took it and our Prius and ended up paying over 4x more for charging than we paid for fuel for the Prius. My wife, driving the Prius, also made it to and from our destination about 1.5 hours earlier each way as I had to wait for charging each time.
We might get an EV for my daily commute, but there's no way in hell we're getting rid of that Prius for longer trips.
Yup. In the current market, EVs are for people living in single family homes in the suburbs and commute a significant distance daily or people who want to spend money on a status symbol.
Not exactly. Used EVs are already cheaper than comparable ICE vehicles, in large part because new EV sticker prices have dropped so much in the last 2 years.
If you're shopping for a car with a specific budget, you should be able to pick and choose between many different models, many of which are EVs.
I don't think people trust used EVs yet. The battery replacement is a scary looming question with them.
And if a car has an electric version and an ICE version, the electric version is much more expensive. And that's what a lot of people are seeing and noping out of. Especially when they're looking at car prices in general and feeling like they're being ripped off.
Absolutely. Not enough people know people who have experience with EVs. Toyota and Honda built their reputation over decades.And for most people, it really doesn't make a lot of sense to get an EV if they just see it as transportation.
If you’re shopping for a car with a specific budget, you should be able to pick and choose between many different models, many of which are EVs.
Only if you're situation allows for making an EV a primary mode of transportation. The market for EVs is probably the best it's ever been. The percentage of people for whom an EV would make sense has never been larger, but still, most people in the US would be making a mistake to get one.
I don't want a new car full stop. Too much tech. Too many new integrated features to break. Too much spying. Not enough maintenance that can be done by the owner. If you gave me a car with less tech and a battery I'd probably be fine with it. But I have to listen to all the BS from people who work on electric cars several times a week, and I gotta tell ya, I'm not convinced to buy any new car. Not just EV's or hybrids.
Yep give me a dumb electric car.
Only way is to build your own.
I've seen some shops in LA that claim to take certain car models and turn them into evs. It's a long shot but I'm taking a look when my car dies or we need another car.
My civic will probably last another decade given how cheap the parts are and reliable the car is.
Yeah I've visited the local one but they are exorbitantly expensive. Like 6 figures. There's a lot of custom fabrication involved. And at the end of it you still have a car that lacks modern safety features.
2013 civic under 70k miles I will cling to this bitch till i die or it dies or we die
Too much tech that's so deeply integrated, little fender benders total the car. It sucks.
Might it be that the chargers are mostly less known? The few times I wanted to have a charger on the road there were ample (fast) options on my way. Discoverable through various apps. This is within Europe, no idea about other places. Europe also has CCS for fast charging so no connector issue (adapter needed on Tesla but it works).
It used to be more of a challenge 10 years ago but even then is was feasible to reach destinations quite far. Detours were sometimes needed back then.
You know what would be nice, cars that don't fucking spy on you and sell your every move and location.
That would be nice, but are you implying that the same manufacturers that put spyware in one vehicle refrain from doing it in the other solely based on drivetrain? I try to come up with a logical reason, but I fall short.
Oh sorry, I thought we were shitting on US car manufacturers.
The US auto manufacturers have stalled.
BYD is selling like cray all over the world.
Make them more affordable and not riddled with spyware and maybe we can talk about it when my current car breaks down. Car makers used EVs as an excuse to make their surveillance even more pervasive and we've already seen leaks of cabin cameras and microphones.
Hate to break it to you but spyware is in all cars, regardless of powertrain.
Which is definitely a problem, and could be a reason to not buy newer vehicles, but is a silly reason to not buy EVs.
Yes that was my point, thank you
I know, just closing all the loopholes for the Olympic-class deniers.
I was about to say, "not in my 2004 350Z", but then I remembered that I upgraded the stereo to a unit that runs Android Auto.
I can't imagine a future of non-electric cars (assuming cars remain the dominate form of transportation in the US because we suck). They're so much better than ICE cars and it's not even close.
I've owned a Spark EV and a Bolt EV, basically the cheapest EVs you can get, and they're two of the best cars I've ever driven. Driving a family member's brand new ICE Kia felt like going back 50 years. It's so slow, it makes so much noise, it feels like a boat, ugh.
If I had twice the budget for a car, I'd get an Ioniq 5 or 6. If I had quadruple the budget, I'd get a Lucid. If I had half the budget, I'm going back to the ~~street legal go-kart~~ Spark EV. I just can't even consider ICE cars as options anymore after getting used to an EV.
Same. Got a Bolt EUV and it's easily the nicest car we've owned. Can't see ourselves ever going back to an ICE vehicle. No stopping for gas, no oil changes or smog checks, and nearly free charging with solar...whole experience has been amazing.
If people in townhomes, condos, and apartments can conveniently charge while sleeping, they'll switch eventually if it saves them money.
I recently needed a new car. It was 10k more for plug-in hybrid or 15k more for EV. Ugh! They're not making it easy to get off the gas.
If it helps, the maintenance is dirt cheap. Compared to my last ICE car, the inspections are roughly 130 euro cheaper each (not counting inflation!), and the only real maintenance costs have been new tires, pollen filters and wipers (and that one time a moron drove over my charging cable and ripped out the port)
There are fewer moving parts, no oil*, no gaskets, no weird gas recirculating systems, no pumps. The brakes basically don't wear out because of regenerative braking.
*Except for a fixed reduction gear.
Not really anything to do with EVs, just that OEMs don't seem to WANT to make cheap ones, for some reason. Think like a Chevy Spark but with 200+ miles of range.