As long as a lot of people are doing that, the ones templating larger flags will be forced to reduce their layouts and give more room for actual drawings.

[Reasoning] When it comes to country flags, I think that the immense majority of the users can be split into four groups:

The ones who don't want to see country flags at all.
The ones who are OK with smaller flags, but don't want to see larger ones.
The ones who want to see a specific large flag taking a huge chunk of space.
The ones who want to see the whole canvas burning, like the void.

I'm myself firmly rooted into #1, but this idea is a compromise between #1, #2 and #4.

Typically #3 uses numbers (and/or bots) to seize a huge chunk of the canvas to their flags. Well, let's use numbers against it then. As long as #1, #2 and #4 are trying to wreck the same flag, we win.

[inb4]

But what about identity flags?

Not a problem. They're typically bands instead of thick squares, and people drawing them are fairly accommodating.

But what about [insert another thing]

Even if [thing] is a problem, it's probably minor in comparison with huge country flags.

What should be the template?

None. We don't need one, as long as everyone is working against the same large flag.

Just draw something of your choice over the flag, preferably over its iconic features.

But I'm not creative enough for that!

No matter how shitty your drawing is, it's probably still way more original than a country flag. So don't feel discouraged.

That said, you can always help someone else with their drawing. Or plop in some text. Or just void.

Why are you posting this now, you bloody Slowpoke?

I wish that I thought about this before Canvas 2024. But better later than never. (And better early by a year for Canvas 2025.)

EDIT: addressing on general grounds some whining from group #3 (the ones who want to see a specific large flag taking a huge chunk of the canvas space).

You do realise that this sort of "war against the largest flag" should benefit even you, as long as the biggest flag is not the one you're working with, right? Even for you, this makes the canvas a more even level field. Let us not forget that you love to cover other flags with your own.

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[–] FireWire400@lemmy.world 23 points 4 months ago (1 children)

If you don't want to see flags, don't participate. Canvas is about people working together to create something and in my opinion, country flags have their place on there just as much as the endless brand logos, ponies and amongus crewmates.

[–] lvxferre@mander.xyz 6 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 children)

If you don’t want to see flags, don’t participate.

Or alternatively we [people who don't want to see larger flags seizing the space that should be taken by more meaningful stuff] can gather support to fight back within the rules of the Canvas, even if you found such a polite way to rephrase "if you don't like what we do, fuck off and don't play".

And I'm not even saying here "don't post flags at all". I'm saying "cut the larger flags down to size".

country flags have their place on there just as much as the endless brand logos, ponies and amongus crewmates.

And if left alone, their "place" becomes the whole canvas. We all know how nationalists are like - give them a hand and they'll scream "THE WHOLE ARM IS MY REICH".

[–] FireWire400@lemmy.world 9 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (4 children)

I'm not even really disagreeing with you. To be honest, I'm quite sick of seeing large plain flags on the canvas, too. But I fail to see a point in being so angry about it to the point of wanting to "fight back" against the "nationalists".

At the end of the day, it's not that important. Just leave them and look for other spots to draw your stuff, maybe ask around in participating communities; they'll even help you if you ask nicely.

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[–] Snoopy@jlai.lu 13 points 4 months ago (4 children)

The point of flag is, that they are (usually) easier coordinate, draw and restore.

I suppose they will alway start with the flag because it is our culture but also define a drawing zone.

I disagree with any form of vadalism, but you may invit them drawing their monument :)

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[–] OmegaMouse@pawb.social 9 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 children)

I think the templates should be limited in size perhaps - if you look at the intended template location post from the other day, yes the Australian flag is significantly larger than the other submissions. However on the final canvas, people have drawn within the blue space of the flag which is actually quite cute. I don't think 'defacing' is necessary, but rather a continuation of (at least what appears to me to be) a symbiosis where overlapping images work together.

So I guess I'd like to see drawing accepted on top of any large continuous blocks of colour.

P.s. I love what Canada did - the outline on top of the flag looks really cool!

[–] lvxferre@mander.xyz 3 points 4 months ago

Limiting the template regardless of what's being drawn is an idea worth discussing with the devs.

[–] eatham@aussie.zone 9 points 4 months ago (8 children)

Please don't. The Aussie flag will likely be the largest, and it will have art on it next year (not like this year where we accepted art, next year it will be on the template.) It also allowed art this year. There is no reason to be an asshole and ruin stuff for no good reason.

[–] tobogganablaze@lemmus.org 3 points 4 months ago

Oh wow. I had to go back to check for the Australian flag. Took me a bit to notice the blue and the two stars around the British Flag.

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[–] apotheotic@beehaw.org 8 points 4 months ago (1 children)

It did make me feel a bit gross that from the get-go the plan was for the Australian flag to take up such an enormous space.

I'm satisfied with how things turned out, with art going all over the flag and the stars shining through, but it didn't seem considerate in the beginning.

[–] lvxferre@mander.xyz 5 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (2 children)

I’m satisfied with how things turned out, with art going all over the flag and the stars shining through, but it didn’t seem considerate in the beginning.

It's often like this, to give you a false impression of a compromise. I've seen it all the time in r/place, for example. (Doubly true in pixelplanet, but that's... eh, let's say that biggest drawing there is a swastika.)

And typically, it goes like this:

Claim a huge space of the canvas for the sake of the flag.
Lay waste over whatever is in the middle of the way, be it drawings or flags from other herds.
"Oh fuck, it's too big for us to defend. People are drawing random stuff over it."
Eventually let the people drawing random stuff to do it, under the terms dictated by the flag itself. Under a discourse that sounds a lot like "this is the land of Our Holy Symbol. However, since we're magnanimous, we shall turn a blind eye to your doodle defacing it."
[If applicable] Shift the blame of the step #2 on others. "Nooo, I didn't do it. Others did."

Besides the façade of compromise, there's also a second motivation for fourth last step: it's a way to co-opt people drawing random stuff to protect the flag, as they likely care about the surroundings of their own drawings.

Please do note, however, that people drawing those large flags do not want to reach an actual compromise. And playing nice (cooperation) only works if the other side is also playing nice - we shouldn't be playing dove in a hawk-dove game.

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[–] CaptObvious@literature.cafe 2 points 4 months ago (2 children)

The flaw in the plan is that three or four large-flag cadres could conspire to support each other and overwhelm a protest.

Ultimately, flags are just symbols similar to any other logo. But I’d still prefer just to see them banned from Canvas rather see Canvas turn into an r/place arms race.

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[–] alsaaas@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Will you organise a Matrix chat for this? I'd definitely be interested in joining

[–] lvxferre@mander.xyz 4 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 children)

Will you organise a Matrix chat for this?

Now I will - that's a great idea.

I'm planning to do so when the next Canvas is announced, in 2025, as people will be a bit more pumped up to join than now. (For now I'm mostly gauging interest on the idea.)

When I do it, do you want me to ping you?

[–] alsaaas@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 4 months ago

Feel free to ping me! o/

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