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Easy: even if you vote for Bernie that's still at best center-left. The US just really, really leans right overall: there's center-right (democrats) and far-right (republicans) and that's about it.
You guys are so afraid of socialism no party dares venture the true left.
Americans being afraid of socialism is proof that propaganda works. It's literally for the people.
As does decades of systematically defunding education. The decades of leaded gas/paint by prior generations probably weren't helping...
Here in Czechia, we had socialism a few decades ago. Pretty much everyone old enough to remember it hates it.
Socialism is not a 'one thing' . It's a concept as a whole. You can have good or bad socialism and everything in between.
The world is far more nuanced than that.
Do you have working examples of good socialism?
I'll give some examples of great implementations of socialism that drives welfare in today's democracies, as I personally believe that socialism can't exist without democracy, as it's one of the core values of the concept, that's it's controlled by the people.
One of socialisms ultimate goals are also equality, which my examples will show.
These are just the big ones that really helps to make sure that very few people are actually poor and are getting desperate because of it.
Also, it's always important to say that socialism and capitalism are NOT mutually exclusive. It's perfectly normal to have all these concepts from socialism in a capitalist country.
I think we can agree that a country with 100% capitalism or socialism is not the best way to go.
What leftist party is there in the US that is centered around some form of Socialism that controls any meaningful amount of the State?
That's only a meaningful question if the only "true Left" is a Leftist political party that is centered around some form of Socialism that controls a meaningful amount of a State.
Not necessarily. A Syndicalist or otherwise Anarchist-derivative party doesn't exist either, and no similar coalition exists on the ground with widespread impact on the Capitalist status-quo, yet.
I really hope you're not trying to insinuate that the DNC are somehow left wing.
@return2ozma@lemmy.world One way to think about "the left" is that it values freedom from domination. Who in the US is fighting to reduce the level of domination we experience in important areas of life (health care, education, food, housing to name a few)? Should we really have to pay and put ourselves into debt--thereby becoming dominated--to go to school, live somewhere, or maintain our health? Even the so-called left in the US supports this arrangement generally; at best they fight over the details, not the structure itself.
I think there's value in what you're calling attention to.
"Freedom" vs "domination" though has nothing to do with the left or right of a government (in theory). You're actually referring to libertarianism vs authoritarianism, which is (again, in theory) independent from economic structure.
Nah bud. you can't separate social theory from economic theory in general terms. They are one and the same. How your currency is used and controlled and by who for what is social theory.
They are related (in practice) but I disagree that they're one "and" the same. Freedom from domination can exist in the left or the right.
Demonizing the views that you don't hold as inherently opposed to freedom is how the US got to this point in this awful no spectrum of views two party system in the first place.
(By the way, just noticed your username. How're'ya'now bud?)
Freedom from domination cannot exist in the right, as domination is the method by which production occurs. The right must whitewash domination, clean it, yet still use it, to operate.
Are you suggesting that there is no production without domination?
No, not at all. I'm suggesting that when production is directed by an owner class, the worker class is dominated. If the workers collectively or individually own the means of production, there is no domination.
On that point I'm with you! It's painfully obvious in today's wealth disparity in the US.
Where it breaks down for me is your argument that it's only possible to have a dominating dynamic in a right wing regime. Would you really argue that the CCP does not impose a dominating dynamic over the people of China?
My point was more that the right is necessarily dominating, while the left is conditionally so. The original point was that either side could be dominating or not, and I disagree with that, only the left has the chance to not be dominating because it's a requirement for the right.
No. Capitalism, feudalism, monarchism, and so forth are built on domination, ie hierarchy, while leftist structures such as Socialism, Communism, and Anarchism advocate collective ownership so as to combat this.
The reason that type of left is ignored because it's dumber than libertarianism. At least the mirror of it realizes someone has to pay for it (perhaps those want to use it), and just doesn't like the coercive mandate. You, though, both don't want to be coerced AND think it all oughtta be free because....forcing people to give you free shit is not being dominated? "I want to be a lazy bully" isn't the intellectual flex you think it is.
You have never once engaged honestly with what a leftist believes.
I've never ate horseshit either.
Really? How'd it get in your mouth then, for you to spit it everywhere?
Is this what passes for clever in your mind?
I chuckled a bit when I wrote it.
There's no leftist party, nothing Socialist in the least. The furthest "left" you go is the DNC, which is liberal, and therefore right wing. The furthest right you go is the GOP, which is fascist.
