this post was submitted on 29 Jun 2024

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‘I am not made for war’: the men fleeing Ukraine to evade conscription (www.theguardian.com)

submitted 3 months ago by schizoidman@lemmy.ml to c/world@lemmy.world

54 comments fedilink hide all child comments

cross-posted from: https://lemmy.ml/post/17423369

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[–] hark@lemmy.world 6 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Fighting for your home made more logical sense when the consequence of losing your home meant you most likely had nowhere to go and either were stuck under brutal occupation or left to wander for a place to live with a high risk of dying before finding anything. With how much more accessible distant travel is these days, I can't imagine any piece of land worth dying for, especially when considering the typical lack of support that veterans get when the fighting is over.

I respect those with the courage to fight for defense, but I wouldn't look down upon anyone who left.

[–] Venator@lemmy.nz 1 points 3 months ago

considering the typical lack of support that veterans get when the fighting is over.

I've heard this about American vets, but is it true in eastern european countries too?

[–] zurchpet@lemmy.ml 3 points 3 months ago (1 children)

I have the biggest respect for all the people defending Ukraine from Russia.

But if everybody decided to not go to war. There would be no wars.

Utopia. I know.

[–] khaleer@sopuli.xyz 0 points 3 months ago (1 children)

For me there is a distinction between people volounterly choosing to defend imaginary borders and forcing people to do so. Since Ukraine decided to force even more ppl to do it, I have only mixed feelings.

[–] WagyuSneakers@lemmy.world 3 points 3 months ago (1 children)

"Just cede all land to bullies and live under tyrants" isn't as appealing of an alternative to fighting Russia.

[–] khaleer@sopuli.xyz 0 points 3 months ago (1 children)

What quote would you use to describe situation where country fighting russian empire starts to use russia' own tactic of feeding battlefield with cannon fodders forced to do so by force? This doesn't matter what are the colours of tyranny above me. I hate them all.

[–] WagyuSneakers@lemmy.world 1 points 3 months ago (2 children)

That's not what's happening at all. Feel free to keep regurgitating Russian propaganda.

[–] Strawberry@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Ukraine doing anything bad is Russian Propaganda™

[–] WagyuSneakers@lemmy.world 0 points 3 months ago

No one said that.

Keep lying.

[–] khaleer@sopuli.xyz 1 points 3 months ago (1 children)

yeah, people who do not care about country or do not want to die, are totally free to flee away. Men aren't blocked at the border at all.

Do not understand me bad. I was supportive all the time for the Ukraine, but west lost it, Ukraine lost it, all governments felt under russia influence, choosing profit above human lives. And in this situation I do not care about UA corrupted government, if ppl do not care, let them live.

[–] claudiop@lemmy.world 0 points 3 months ago (1 children)

When the likely outcome is death, most people don't want to fight. If people were just allowed to flee to some other country, not only the bully country gets a free and repeatable pass but the neighbouring countries get some immigration crisis which lead to not-so-fun rhetorics.

The Finns were some of the most vigorous defenders in history, but if they just had the option of moving en mass to Sweden, consequence-free, they probably would. If that was to be the case every decade or so, today's Russia would be bigger than the USSR ever was and without any republic whatsoever, only Russians given that everyone else fled. They have quite the history of chomping territory; that's how they got this big to start with.

You probably understand that this wouldn't fly. That the other countries wouldn't allow it to happen anyway. But at the end of the day, you need boots on the ground to do anything about it.

[–] khaleer@sopuli.xyz 1 points 3 months ago (1 children)

looking at things that happened during this war, Ukraine was able to defense itself and foght back with volounteers and "patriots" or just their own military with help from the west.

So rn their forces are depleted, the west is turning prorussian and is starting to talk about stopping support of ammo and arms to Ukraine.

One of the reasons russians started the war, was their expectation, that countries (fe Poland) wouldn't allow mass migrations of Ukrainians (they tested it before on poish borders, but forgot that polish ppl are fucking racists, and with mostly whiteUA population, ppl had not so big problem with immigration). They (russians) thought by killing civilians they will be able to force UA to surrender. Again, this plan had failed, due to ppl escaping Ukraine succesfully, allowing the volounters to fight for their imaginarry land with orc cannon fodders foghting for their own imaginary land.

Ukraine is losing, ppl across the Europe started rumoring about "forced relocation" of UA imigrants back to ukraine in order to fkrce them to fight in war, the EU, and USA is willing to lose due to capitalism and their own russia influence.

And right now, you want to allow those poor folks to die on the battlefield, bc billionaires from across the EU and USA want to save money, or just directly get even more from russians directly?

yeah, better find more quotes to try to justify this nonsense

[–] claudiop@lemmy.world 1 points 3 months ago

These last year's of fighting were not exclusively done by volunteers and patriots at all.

Source: Gave a place to stay to a men (28yo) dodging the draft, weeks after the war started. He told me that his friends were either hiding in some grandpa house, pretending that they never knew about any draft invite, or straight up ran to some other country (some of them bribing border guards in the process).

These situations happened in 2022, not now. You can probably imagine that this is far from "with volunteers". A lot of these were caught (or didn't hide in the first place) and were sent to some army outpost.

[–] robocall@lemmy.world 2 points 3 months ago

All the Ukrainians that were voluntarily willing to serve and fight are either already on the field, injured, or dead.

I believe Ukraine needs foreign soldiers to finish the war, or they will have to surrender eventually. The Russians have no problem dragging this out, sending millions more of their people to die for this war.

[–] xpinchx@lemmy.world 2 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Terrible situation. I had a temp come work for me that had fled from Ukraine. I judged the situation at first, but I considered what I would do in his situation. I'd like to think I'd stay and fight, but we only get one life. My guy was just trying to to survive.

[–] Potatos_are_not_friends@lemmy.world 1 points 3 months ago

During the first year (Jesus I can't believe I'm saying this), my colleagues in Ukraine thanked us for the work we had and disappeared. I saw him post in a gaming blog comment about Elden Ring dlc so I think he's alive.

Most of the world wants to be left alone.

[–] Noodle07@lemmy.world 2 points 3 months ago

War is hell, can't blame them

[–] Zehzin@lemmy.world 1 points 3 months ago

Yeah I'd do the same.

[–] small44@lemmy.world 1 points 3 months ago

I can't judge, prople have different mental strength and courage, i may do or feel the same if i was in place despite believing that all people should resist invaders

[–] Aurenkin@sh.itjust.works 1 points 3 months ago (5 children)

Such a tough and heartbreaking situation. Of course I'm pretty sure most of us would like to think we'd step up if our country was brutally attacked but I honestly have no idea what I'd do. Facing seemingly endless meat waves would be hell by itself let alone thermobaric bombs and drones.

[–] barsquid@lemmy.world 2 points 3 months ago (1 children)

I'm not fighting for this shithole country unless I am fighting against MAGAs instead of for MAGAs.

[–] angstylittlecatboy@reddthat.com 1 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

I personally think that's the only likely scenario where there'd be war on American soil.

[–] ArcaneGadget@lemmy.world 2 points 3 months ago

No fucking way. I ain't gonna' die fighting for the inflated egos, of the morons in charge of the world powers and their ass-lickers. I'd gather up my loved ones and leave in a heartbeat, if my country started forced conscription. I'm not enough of a nationalist to die "for king and fatherland", no matter how much i like this little country.

[–] state_electrician@discuss.tchncs.de 1 points 3 months ago

Fuck my country. My loyalty is to my family.

[–] invisiblegorilla@sh.itjust.works 1 points 2 months ago

Fight someone else's war...? And risk my life??. Fuck fighting for 'my country' - or some prick who might be in charge of it today. Its a fucking parasite that squeezed me for everything it could get, and relentlessly continues.

[–] HappycamperNZ@lemmy.world 0 points 3 months ago (1 children)

(Completely different country here, no present risk.) The unfortunate reality for me is that I have three kids who might be called up if the shit hits the fan, and I've had 30 odd years longer on this planet.

If its not me, it's my kids.

[–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 0 points 3 months ago (1 children)

I'm too old and too sick to ever be called up to fight unless it's hopeless. But I have a 14-year-old daughter and I see no reason for the modern U.S. military to keep its "women can't be drafted" policy in such a situation. I can't lose her. My biggest fear, one I have nightmares about, is outliving her. Even if I was super patriotic, I don't think I'd risk her being forced to fight. I would flee.

[–] PugJesus@lemmy.world -1 points 3 months ago (1 children)

That only causes the sons and daughters of others to die

[–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 1 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Maybe so, and this may be callous of me, but I would not sacrifice my daughter over them. I don't know whether or not you are a parent, but I don't think many parents would be willing to sacrifice their children because others wanted them sacrificed.

[–] PugJesus@lemmy.world -1 points 3 months ago (1 children)

How many other sons and daughters are worth your's? Ten? A hundred? A thousand? Does it matter if they're children, or legal adults? Does it matter if they die quickly, or held, raped for a month, and then tortured to death?

[–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 1 points 3 months ago (18 children)

Are you a parent? Because otherwise, I don't think you really understand why I feel this way.

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[–] BrokenGlepnir@lemmy.world 1 points 3 months ago (1 children)

No one is made for war... except 007 after he caught that brain eating amoeba from the gulf coast.

[–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 1 points 3 months ago

No one is made for war, but the world's military medical research teams are working on it.

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