this post was submitted on 28 May 2024
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Hello guys. I recently acquired a Pixel 8A and it was Google stock os I bought it from a man locally all with cash I brought It home and I flashed grapheneos onto this phone.

What else needs to be done to anonymous this phone and make it a privacy phone and a spy free phone no tracking phone no interception phone and no monitored phone.

Any advice welcome!

Thanks.

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[–] Jean_le_Flambeur@discuss.tchncs.de 30 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (2 children)

If you want to be sure you cant be tracked, monitored, spyed on, and calls can't be intersepted:

Don't ever connect it to WiFi and don't insert a sim card.

Graphene or not, your ISP can still share your position or other meta data with government and stuff (in the us they can also be forced to not tell you) - in some countries they legally sell to third party's, in some probably illegaly

Calls are normally not encrypted so the os doesn't matter as much if its the government who can force your ISP or if someone is skilled enough for a Man in the middle attack.

Android is a highly complex system, it will never be 100% safe.

If you just want to decrease spying by companies and less powerful people:

Use neo store or fdroid (no google play or aurora) as all apps there are Foss

Don't install gapps or any other google services/packages

Use shelter for less trusted apps

Use netguard to block apps from accessing the internet

Physically block your cameras

If you want to be absolutely sure no one is recording audio: destroy mics with a needle and connect headset only when you need it

To only use communication apps which are encrypted and you hold the keys should be not needed to be said: matrix, signal, element, xmpp are good, (telegram (normal chats), Facebook, WhatsApp etc is a no go)

[–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 21 points 5 months ago (3 children)

Don't ever connect it to WiFi and don't insert a sim card.

So.. don't ever use the Internet?

[–] jet@hackertalks.com 22 points 5 months ago

I think they are trying to illustrate the value of being explicit about your threat model.

So if your threat is the network, you can't use the network. Because the original poster is so vague about what their actual threat is, it could be as simple as use Firefox and an ad blocker, or don't connect to the network ever for any reason...

[–] Jean_le_Flambeur@discuss.tchncs.de 10 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (8 children)

Exactly. If you want to be 100℅ sure you don't get tracked AT ALL you can't use the internet.

The second you connect metadata is gained by ISP and all the servers which get called. This can be enough to track you down for powerful entities like the government.

If only your aunt may with a evening school IT course is your threat, a pin and graphene os is probably enough

Also OP mentioned his sim card is registered on his real life name, so having that connected to cellphones is enough to track you if you have a warrant to force your internet service provider to share the information

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[–] AtariDump@lemmy.world 9 points 5 months ago

Can’t be tracked if you never turn it on.

[–] Jean_le_Flambeur@discuss.tchncs.de 4 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (1 children)

Plus: its google/us hardware. They could always hide something in lower level software like drivers or bios.

(Cant find the arricle i was thinking of, maybe false): It was recently discovered that snapdragons pinged their home server when turning on, which was not noticeable in android as it was on a deeper software level

[–] narc0tic_bird@lemm.ee 14 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Source for the last paragraph?

Good question. Tried to find it but couldn't. Think I saw a post linking to an article somewhere here on Lemmy, but can't find it anymore. So take it with a grain of salt

[–] jet@hackertalks.com 15 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (2 children)

First off, and most importantly, it is not an anonymous phone.

The phone is tied to your location, your identity with your cell phone carrier, the IMEI, the IMSI, many identifiers you will not be able to change. From a threat modeling perspective, you cannot be attached to a network without tracking, interception, and monitoring.

You can use your phone in a way to minimize third-party tracking, and unnecessary data leakage. You did a good job by installing graphene OS.

Just be mindful of the applications you install on it, if you install sandbox Google apps, just realize Google will still have access to your location and push notifications etc.

If your threat model truly includes not being observed, disable the cell phone part of the phone. Only use the phone via Wi-Fi. That'll reduce a lot of the risk surface

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[–] helenslunch@feddit.nl 11 points 5 months ago

It will never be any of those things.

If you want to get close as possible, this is going to be a LONG conversation and has less to do with the device and more to do with how you use it and what sacrifices you're willing to make.

[–] jet@hackertalks.com 7 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (1 children)

I'm going to pivot this answer, to the more general: what's good data hygiene for my phone?

No specific threats, but what's the easiest things I can do to regain as much privacy and autonomy as possible.

Using graphene OS is great, good job.

Using always on VPN, like mullvad.

Set up a work profile, and install Google services inside the work profile, you can use shelter to do this. Then anything you need that requires Google, like Google maps, Uber, Lyft you can use it from that profile.

Use a secure messenger like signal, or simple x, with your friend group. To prevent metadata and unencrypted cell phone calls from leaking

I highly, highly, highly recommend you read privacy guides https://www.privacyguides.org/en/

[–] jet@hackertalks.com 4 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

People keep talking about threat models, that's an important exercise for everyone to do eventually. Figure out who your adversaries are what the downsides of them discovering information is and how much effort you're willing to put into prevent that.

For instance, keeping your phone private from snooping roommates fairly easy. Little bit of effort has good dividends

Being a whistleblower, much more difficult, depending on who your adversary is they could use a lot of asymmetric resources. Boeing has a tendency for their whistleblowers to become suicidal, through some means. And if that was your scenario, you'd have to be very careful.

But the biggest threat of all, the absolute worst threat you could ever face with technology, is a bored battle buddy working in signals intelligence.... There is no law, there is no restraint, there is no safety.... They will find your s***, and they will embarrass you.

[–] LoveSausage@lemmy.ml 6 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (2 children)

Start with the basics. Use a VPN preferable a good one payed in crypto /XMR or cash. Use Foss apps only check out F-droid.

Also one that blocks malware and ads. If not use adguard.dns or other that filter traffic

Settings , disable 2-3 G if you always have access to 4-5 G .

Don't change add browsers use vanadium. No gapps obviously.

The more challenging is to just use it as WiFi phone without SIM.

[–] Lemongrab@lemmy.one 3 points 5 months ago (2 children)

Vanadium doesn't have good/any fingerprinting protection. Cromite or Mull would be better, Tor would be best.

[–] Jako301@feddit.de 5 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Vanadium is purposefully made this way. It tries to minimise profiling by making your actions noise in a big mass of users. That only works if you use the standard config without anything to discern you.

Mull is the other extreme of this. They try to eliminate fingerprinting by reducing the amount of trackable things in your browser.

It's hard to say what really is the better option. You can't completely eliminate fingerprinting, and the more you try, the more you will stick out of the masses.

[–] Lemongrab@lemmy.one 4 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

You can't blend in with a crowd of vanadium users with the amount of data points given away by the browser. Your fingerprint will be decernable from other users. Without actual anti-fingerprinting, which theoretical can allow for a crowd only when fingerprinting of user browsers results in the same fingerprint ID, the best you can hope to do is thwart naive fingerprinting. Vanadium doesn't have any anti-fingerprint built in, so the slightest differences between user can be used to easily fingerprint. Vanadium also has no strong method of in browser content blocking (eg an adblocker like uBlock) which is required on the modern web to remove JS tracking scripts (or straight allow and deny lists for specific web contents). Adblock is cyber security: https://www.ic3.gov/Media/Y2022/PSA221221

Examples of metrics include, but are not limited to, the following: Timezone, system and browser fonts (often automatically fetched by websites as a remote font that is cached by the browser), language, screen metrics (DPI, height x width, refresh rate, pixel ratio), canvas, CSS fingerprint, useragent, browsing mode (standard/private), video autoplay policy, audio device fingerprinting, installed plugins, cookie policy, device theme, and of course IP.

As a graphene OS vanadium user, assuming that the browser stays default, you would still have screen, audio, other hardware metrics, canvas (this one is a killer), IP, user agent (differences in installed versions of plugins and vanadium itself), timezone, remote Fonts, and others. Fingerprinting is an insane science which needs actual protection against to even begin hoping to create a crowd.

See some more details below.

Info on fingerprinting (about choosing a desktop browser but still relevant info): https://www.privacyguides.org/en/desktop-browsers

Browser comparison: https://divestos.org/pages/browsers

Fingerprinting test site: https://abrahamjuliot.github.io/creepjs/

[–] LoveSausage@lemmy.ml 3 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (2 children)

Why would you use Chrome webview plus something else? You can't replace just pile on. Not a good idea. https://grapheneos.org/usage#web-browsing

[–] Lemongrab@lemmy.one 2 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Dont use system webview as your default browser. Webview is used by apps, your browser can and should be changed if privacy is your goal. Vanadium may be hardened, but it lacks any fingerprinting protection.

[–] LoveSausage@lemmy.ml 2 points 5 months ago (4 children)
  1. That makes no sense.
  2. Vanadium have a different approach than trying to block it , blend in instead.
  3. Gecko based browser have crap sandboxing
  4. Again if you have 1 problem adding 1 more makes 2 problems.
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[–] Lemongrab@lemmy.one 2 points 5 months ago

I read your source and am not convinced. While I do agree that piling on modifications is often fruitless and counterintuitive, Vanadium doesn't have the Fingerprinting protection necessary to create a crowd. At best it can create many islands of crowd for each physical device graphene supports, for each version of the software installed, and only assuming all other method of fingerprinting don't work (for some reason theoretically for the sake of this best case scenario). Read cromite's patch list to see some of the changes needed to produce basic anti-fingerprinting (still not good enough to create a crowd).

[–] Koolaid33@lemm.ee 3 points 5 months ago (1 children)

I have a sim card in this phone. The sim card is one I heavily rely on. I have disabled the option for disable 2G in sims is this good? Even without the LTE mode as my phone doesn't seem to have this.

I don't have any crypto / XMR and in this case, shall I just set the DNS you recommended me without any VPN and just always use that? Thanks.

[–] LoveSausage@lemmy.ml 3 points 5 months ago (2 children)

I used adguard.dns before now I have VPN that have DNS filter. Disabling 2-3g minimize attack surface but just a small thing use 3 g if you need it. You can use both private DNA in settings and a free VPN if you want.

[–] Koolaid33@lemm.ee 2 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Are you recommending I change Preferred network type " to 3G? other options are 4G only 5G ( recommend ) 4G if I use that DNS with what VPN u recommend, and have allow 2g disable am I good?

[–] LoveSausage@lemmy.ml 4 points 5 months ago (2 children)

It's only an attack surface minimation , security is better on new generations. I use all since I am in the middle of nowhere. If you don't need it disable it, otherwise let it be

[–] Koolaid33@lemm.ee 2 points 5 months ago

Its preferred network type 3g and allow 2g disable and I use dns.adguard.com am I good now mate?

[–] Koolaid33@lemm.ee 2 points 5 months ago

I have the DNS set to the one you said and the preferred network type set to 3g and the VPN calyx VPN, am I good now?

[–] Koolaid33@lemm.ee 2 points 5 months ago (1 children)

If I use adguard dns in my phone settings, what is best free VPN to use with it? Other than proton / Riseup?

[–] LoveSausage@lemmy.ml 2 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Proton riseup and calyx comes to mind.

[–] Koolaid33@lemm.ee 2 points 5 months ago

I had to put dns.adguard.com and my preferred network is 3g with Allow 2g disable is this good always? And Riseup vpn

[–] MrSoup@lemmy.zip 5 points 5 months ago

I use TrackerControl (f-droid).

It's an app that can turn off entirely internet access to an app or granurarly tweak which domains can comunicate with.

[–] krolden@lemmy.ml 4 points 5 months ago

Its still being tracked even with gos. Just maybe Google isn't tracking you.

[–] RiQuY@lemm.ee 3 points 5 months ago (1 children)

For example, using Aurora Store and Obtanium instead of Google Play and avoid enabling Google Play Services.

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[–] TheHobbyist@lemmy.zip 2 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (18 children)

Congratulations on your first steps in GrapheneOS!

In order to best help you and give relevant suggestions, we need more information of who you are trying to be private from.

If your threat model is particularly sophisticated, it may be recommended that you do not use a sim card, or at least never when your phone is at home. Instead, exclusively rely on WiFi. It may also involve desoldering your microphone and camera and only make calls using an earpiece.

These are not recommendations, but simply examples of how far one can go with respect to their threat model. If you would rather want to avoid "regular" spying by google, Facebook and the likes, you may be better off selecting a private DNS (for example Mullvad's extended DNS which comes with social media filtering https://mullvad.net/en/help/dns-over-https-and-dns-over-tls ). You would need to make sure you do not install Google services (nor microg) and especially no google apps.

Much more can be said, but we would need specific information about your case to provide better guidance.

EDIT: I do not want to give the impression that GrapheneOS does not make a good job in improving your situation already. They do! But to do more you would need to justify it with your threat model, that's what I'm getting at.

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