this post was submitted on 16 May 2024
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[–] GlassHalfHopeful@lemmy.ca 18 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

“People think that when you’re mentally ill, you can’t think straight, which is insulting,” she told the Guardian. “I understand the fears that some disabled people have about assisted dying, and worries about people being under pressure to die... But in the Netherlands, we’ve had this law for more than 20 years. There are really strict rules, and it’s really safe.”

She embarked on intensive treatments, including talking therapies, medication and more than 30 sessions of electroconvulsive therapy (ECT). “In therapy, I learned a lot about myself and coping mechanisms, but it didn’t fix the main issues. At the beginning of treatment, you start out hopeful. I thought I’d get better. But the longer the treatment goes on, you start losing hope.”

After 10 years, there was “nothing left” in terms of treatment. "I’ve never hesitated about my decision. I have felt guilt – I have a partner, family, friends and I’m not blind to their pain. And I’ve felt scared. But I’m absolutely determined to go through with it.

Honestly and genuinely, I'm glad to see all that she has put into this decision and glad the state is allowing it. Now she doesn't need to cause further pain to others through a traumatic suicide and she can gain the peace she's been longing for.

Each day, so many lives are snuffed out of existence without a second thought. She has given this an incredible amount of thought, time, and work.

Rest in peace, Zoraya. 💜

P. S. There's thousands of live today that want to live. They don't want to die. And yet their lives are taken away in an instant. Perhaps we should focus on saving them rather than making someone like Zoraya feel even worse.

[–] ZC3rr0r@lemmy.ca 13 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (3 children)

I can't understand why so many people are against someone dying with dignity. This is a form of harm reduction for not just the patient, but also their loved ones, and society in general.

Nobody wants to see their loved ones suffer endlessly or needlessly, and this is also a whole lot less traumatic than people committing suicide. Nobody wants the last memory of their loved ones to be the scene of their (potentially messy) suicide.

And that's not to mention the trauma inflicted on bystanders for some of the more public suicide methods (not to mention that jumping to your death or intentionally walking into/driving into traffic has a decent chance of physically injuring or killing said bystanders).

If this process is undertaken with care and compassion, it's far less likely to be traumatizing to all involved. And it prevents "spur of the moment" decisions, like many successful suicides are.

[–] olympicyes@lemmy.world 4 points 4 months ago (2 children)

You don’t want people jumping in front of a train, but what do you think would happen if this concept were fully embraced by the American for-profit insurance industry? I’m imagining taking my mom to a doctor’s appointment for an expensive treatment and finding tasteful brochures for dying with dignity helpfully placed around the office.

[–] ZC3rr0r@lemmy.ca 4 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

I'm absolutely worried this will get taken advantage of in the US' hellscape that is their healthcare system, but that doesn't mean the concept is without merit.

It's like arguing that cars should not be available for purchase because someone might use one irresponsibly, while forgetting their utility outside of abuse.

In a healthcare system that optimizes outcome instead of profit, having the option to allow someone to choose to end their suffering should not be considered a bad thing.

[–] randon31415@lemmy.world 2 points 4 months ago

You haven't seen all the hospice brochures? You don't even have to imagine - it's like the P.C. version of assisted suicide for old people.

[–] Objection@lemmy.ml 3 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Nobody wants to see their loved ones suffer endlessly or needlessly, and this is also a whole lot less traumatic than people committing suicide.

This is people committing suicide, though.

[–] ZC3rr0r@lemmy.ca 4 points 4 months ago (1 children)

That's both debatable on a semantic level (is it really suicide if it's assisted?) and not how I intended the use of the term.

What I tried to say is that this option is less traumatic than non-assisted options for ending your existence and comes with less risk of injury to bystanders to boot.

[–] Objection@lemmy.ml 4 points 4 months ago (1 children)

How is it debatable? If you're claiming it's not suicide because it's assisted, then by that logic it's murder.

It's one thing to support the policy, it's another thing to misrepresent what the policy is. Suicide is still suicide. Is it less disruptive to society? Absolutely. Is it a good policy? Debatably. But it is still suicide? Indisputably. Support it if you will but don't go around saying that it's "less traumatic than suicide" as if it isn't a form of suicide.

[–] ZC3rr0r@lemmy.ca 2 points 4 months ago (9 children)

We have a great term for the realm between murder and suicide - assistance in dying.

It bridges the gap between the definition of murder (where one party unalives the other party against their consent) and suicide (where one party unalives themselves with intent) by having the person looking to be unalived explicitly expires their intent and consent for the other party to assist them.

I feel as if you're trying to create a false equivalency to undermine the validity of this option.

And as to whether this is less traumatic than suicide - you have got to be kidding or you've never had to deal with the reality of someone committing suicide versus someone choosing assistance in dying.

One generally involves a lot of shock and someone finding a dead body in some state, the other is generally a peaceful affair where loved ones say their goodbyes before the person peacefully falls asleep for the last time.

They are nowhere near the same thing for the survivors and you claiming otherwise is an insult to both. And if you can't see the difference between these two options I'm frankly done debating this with you.

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[–] Dekkia@this.doesnotcut.it 12 points 4 months ago (2 children)

I feel like a lot of replies here have the same "every live is precious and needs to be protected at all costs"-vibe as you get with a lot of anti-abortion arguments.

[–] Objection@lemmy.ml 9 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (21 children)

You are casually ceding the "not wanting people to kill themselves" ground to the right while also allowing them to paint themselves as caring about human lives when in reality they just want to control women's bodies and protect fetuses, not people.

"Every life is valuable" is obviously a left-wing stance because the left are the ones who actually care about people's lives, even when they're disabled, downtrodden, and painted as burdens on society.

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[–] InternetUser2012@midwest.social 2 points 4 months ago

Until they are asked to do something to help, then it's crickets

[–] ChaoticNeutralCzech@feddit.de 11 points 4 months ago

Unsolicited Conservative: "Has she tried to put God on that wound? If only she was religious..."

Dude, doctors will even try homeopathy before resorting to euthanasia.

[–] cactusupyourbutt@lemmy.world 11 points 4 months ago (1 children)

On the appointed day, the medical team will come to Ter Beek’s house. “They’ll start by giving me a sedative, and won’t give me the drugs that stop my heart until I’m in a coma. For me, it will be like falling asleep. My partner will be there, but I’ve told him it’s OK if he needs to leave the room before the moment of death,” she said.

this struck me as a bit odd. In switzerland they cannot „act“, they can only prepare the drugs etc, but you have to do the final act by yourself, otherwise its considered murder.

interesting that they handle it differently

[–] Aganim@lemmy.world 2 points 4 months ago

Actually both options are possible here in the Netherlands, it's a matter of preference of the patient. In both cases a doctor will be present, whom will also supply the drugs if a patient chooses to take them themselves.

This case is incredible rare though, it is already extremely hard to have a euthanasia request granted for mental issues at an older age, let alone someone so young.

A bit more background on 'the aftermath': after the euthanasia took place a coroner will establish that this was indeed the case and once that is done the public prosecutor needs to give permission before the remains may be buried or cremated.

Also, the coroner will send the report of both the physician who approved and performed the euthanasia and that of the SCEN-doctor, who performed the obligatory 2nd opinion mentioned in the article, to a special committee who will check if everything went by the book. Not only the procedure leading up to the euthanasia, but also the act of the euthanasia itself. If there are doubts about whether or not all means of treatment were exhausted and if there really was undue and indefinite suffering, or if there are any doubts if the patient really wanted to go through with the procedure at 'the moment supreme', a doctor can be held accountable for that. Fortunately that is rare, as the whole procedure is not taken lightly.

[–] ironhydroxide@sh.itjust.works 9 points 4 months ago (8 children)

This. Is. Awesome.

Good on her; for doing whatever was reasonable. For making an informed decision. For following the approved methods. And for sticking it out.

We "put down" pets when their suffering is too much, why can't we let people make that same decision for themselves? Luckily the Dutch can.

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[–] OnlineAccount150@lemmy.world 8 points 4 months ago

Maybe if the medical industrial complex surrounding mental health wasn't so profit-hungry and dehumanising, then she might not think that death is an option that she needs to take.

[–] SplashJackson@lemmy.ca 5 points 4 months ago (5 children)

Imagine thinking your life belongs to you, and then having to get permission to end it without suffering

[–] megane_kun@lemm.ee 6 points 4 months ago

There are other options other than this one that requires permission. The article mentions her reasons to choose this method.

From the article:

She had thought about taking her own life but the violent death by suicide of a schoolfriend and its impact on the girl’s family deterred her.

Whether we agree with her or not, it's her decision.

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[–] dumbass@leminal.space 5 points 4 months ago
[–] mortemtyrannis@lemmy.ml 4 points 4 months ago

I feel sorry for her partner watching your loved one die is fucking brutal.

Hope they get supported in the aftermath.

[–] UmeU@lemmy.world 4 points 4 months ago

I disagree with her decision for a few reasons but I’ll defend her right to choose.

There are always going to be people who don’t want to be here anymore for whatever reason, and so the government needs to provide a humane way of dealing with these situations.

Like with abortion, access to controlled procedures with trained professionals reduces harm. Restricting access to safe procedures will cause more harm than it prevents.

Definitely sad. Possibly the wrong choice for her, possibly the right choice, but it’s her choice to make despite how I might feel about it.

[–] AFC1886VCC@reddthat.com 3 points 4 months ago (5 children)

What leads someone in her situation to decide to go down the euthanasia route rather than regular suicide which doesn't need any approval?

It's a morbid thought but euthanasia approval seems like it could often be a slow drawn out process, and someone able-bodied wouldn't necessarily need it.

[–] Asafum@feddit.nl 2 points 4 months ago

For me I don't want someone to have to find me and deal with the aftermath. I'd much rather it be a planned thing so no one else has to suffer just because I needed to end it all. Unfortunately I'm in a country where that's not possible so when the time comes I need to go deep into a forest or something.

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[–] nifty@lemmy.world 2 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

Death is permanent and cannot be undone. Once someone dies they take all their love, potential and beauty with them. We can only live with the memory of it, but that memory doesn’t have the ability to create new things or react to life in new ways.

That said, people should be able to end their suffering in a dignified manner of their choosing without suffering more. No one asked to be alive, it’s a burden imposed on them by the will of the living. The least we can do, then, is to make living as devoid of suffering as we can for everyone.

[–] BakerBagel@midwest.social 2 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 children)

Idk, i am torn on this. Obviously people have had depression with suicidal tendencies since the dawn of humanity, but i feel like most modern suicides come from the failings of oir current systems. I am Zoraya's age and have struggled with depression and finding a reason to live for well over a decade. Euthanisia should be available to anyone with a terminal condition, but she still has her whole lofe ahead of her. It saddens me that the state has decided it is better to let her have a painless suicide rather than address the issues that make her life no longer worth living. To me there is no excuse for otherwise healthy adults in the prime of their lives to feel hopeless, but that is the society we have collectively decided we want to live in.

I'm glad she will be able to die on her own terms, but there is no excuse for this to be her only option. Our society has failed Zoraya and countless people like her.

I have no doubts about her sincerity to die. I just think that a better society would have been able to find her a reason to live. She is absolutely in the right here, and has done nothing wrong. It's her government which has failed her.

[–] efstajas@lemmy.world 7 points 4 months ago (5 children)

Why are you assuming that her mental situation developed as a result of society or "the government"? The article mentions that her conditions are chronic and started developing in early childhood. People can have mental conditions without any particular external trigger.

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[–] figaro@lemdro.id 2 points 4 months ago (3 children)

I'm currently midway through a program to become a therapist. I've been in the mental health space for quite some time, and worked with students of many ages.

This is the wrong decision. Suicide is usually a consequence of hopelessness. In my experience, hope can be brought back to most people suffering from mental health issues.

It also sets a dangerous precedent. A way out, so to speak, for people with a temporary, overcomable problem.

(For the record, I am ok with medical assistance in dying when it comes to chronic severe pain and illness).

[–] xxd@discuss.tchncs.de 6 points 4 months ago

Have you read the article?

Under Dutch law, to be eligible for an assisted death, a person must be experiencing “unbearable suffering with no prospect of improvement”. They must be fully informed and competent to take such a decision.

After 10 years, there was “nothing left” in terms of treatment. “I knew I couldn’t cope with the way I live now.”

In the three and a half years this has taken, I’ve never hesitated about my decision.

How is this a temporary and overcomable problem? It seems clear that it is not temporary and no kind of treatment worked for her. As per the law, there must be unbearable suffering without prospect of improvement, and during the multiple stages of this process, apparently no one came to the conclusion that that wasn't the case for her. So how can you make that assessment?

[–] Duke_Nukem_1990@feddit.de 5 points 4 months ago (3 children)

I'm currently midway through a program to become a therapist. I've been in the mental health space for quite some time, and worked with students of many ages.

So you are not a therapist.

Bodily autonomy includes the right to die, if one choses to do so. Are you against bodily autonomy?

And what do you think would happen if she had been denied? Instead of a dignified death in a safe environment she might have resorted to options available to her, possibly endangering other people as well.

[–] Tangentism@lemmy.ml 3 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 children)

The previous commentor sounds exactly like all those people who have harassed Zoraya with their bullshit "miracle cures".

It had always astounded me that we offer painless, merciful euthanasia to our pets and animals, both wild and domesticated, yet not to our fellow humans, who must suffer until the bitter end.

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[–] ChihuahuaOfDoom@lemmy.world 2 points 4 months ago

I've been in and out of therapy and on and off meds for 32 years, nothing has helped, I wish this was an option. God speed to her.

[–] DmMacniel@feddit.de 2 points 4 months ago (2 children)

Goodbye Zoraya ter Beek, and never stop fighting!

Also the utter disrespect on social media, flooding her accounts with stupid Messages.

[–] metaStatic@kbin.social 6 points 4 months ago

Actually her fight is over, that's the entire point

[–] dutchkimble@lemy.lol 2 points 4 months ago

Never ever! Except a few weeks from now

[–] Emmie@lemm.ee 2 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 children)

It’s her choice what can we really do? It’s tragic but because it is so visible while many others are in this position without such visibility.

I pray I never experience this state of things however at the same time I know I will sooner or later. I sometimes approach the state of insufferable mental torture however it is never permanent or hopeless but I have some tiny glimpse to understand her decision.

The choice of how one exits life is the last bastion of power the living have.

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