Ukraine will continue to fight for what is rightfully theirs. They've done an outstanding job so far, and it's really highlighted the decline of Russian influence on the world stage. Russia is nothing more than a petrodollar fueled aggressor.
this post was submitted on 18 Apr 2024
1 points (100.0% liked)
Asklemmy
43792 readers
1055 users here now
A loosely moderated place to ask open-ended questions
Search asklemmy ๐
If your post meets the following criteria, it's welcome here!
- Open-ended question
- Not offensive: at this point, we do not have the bandwidth to moderate overtly political discussions. Assume best intent and be excellent to each other.
- Not regarding using or support for Lemmy: context, see the list of support communities and tools for finding communities below
- Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members
- An actual topic of discussion
Looking for support?
Looking for a community?
- Lemmyverse: community search
- sub.rehab: maps old subreddits to fediverse options, marks official as such
- !lemmy411@lemmy.ca: a community for finding communities
~Icon~ ~by~ ~@Double_A@discuss.tchncs.de~
founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
Ukraine will continue to fight for what is rightfully theirs
Out of curiosity, how do you define rightfully in that case?
If that "rightfully" is defined as "they owned it before", how long ago does it go? 5 years? 10 years? 100 years? Or just for as long as it is convenient for you? Should Mongolia try to reconquer all the territories it once owned?
Or is it "rightfully" as in "recognized in international law"/"defined by UN" or something like that? In that case, you surely agree that China should fight for Taiwan, right?
I define rightfully as internationally recognized sovereign territory, further backed up by the agreements the aggressor made in the past.
So the second option it is.
When is USA planning to send military aid to China to help it reclaim Taiwan that is rightfully theirs?
When the Taiwanese people democratically declare they want to become part of China. I don't see the US sending military aid to China as long as their claims to the South China Sea don't respect international maritime law. I'd also imagine respecting intellectual property rights is a concern, in addition to China's genocidal actions towards the Uyghurs.
When the Taiwanese people democratically declare they want to become part of China.
Wait what? So if people of a region that is internationally recognized as part of another country declare that they want to be part of another country, you are okay with that?
Then how is Donbass and Crimea doing the same is not okay?
Why is it "rightfully theirs" in case of Ukraine, but not "rightfully theirs" in case of China? What the fuck?
The Donbass and Crimea are currently occupied by Russia, there's never been any Ukrainian held election allowing for the secession of this territory. These regions are not self governing entities that can make this determination. With all due respect, you seem a bit dull, so I'll just leave it at that.
Exact same thing that will happen if you pass aid to Ukraine, except less people will die.
I think it's up to Ukraine to decide if they want to defend themselves or not and they have obviously selected defense.
Russia is the aggressor and is solely responsible for the deaths in this case.
Western backed regime in Ukraine is literally kidnapping people off the streets and forcing them into fighting. Even mainstream western media admits this https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/15/world/europe/ukraine-military-recruitment.html
Yes very unfortunate but Russia is no better.
That's pure nonsense given that this is not happening in Russia. Maybe stop guzzling propaganda and start engaging with reality.
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/08/14/world/europe/russia-convicts-soldiers-ukraine.html
But the worst thing about Russia is obviously that they started the war and are killing Ukrainians in the tens of thousands and are destroying the country for generations to come.
You should stop blindly believing everything the Russians say and especially spreading their propaganda.
Comparing convicts to nabbing people off the street exposes your intellectual dishonesty. However, the fact is that Russia isn't even doing that anymore. They literally have people volunteering. You should follow your own advice and stop projecting. Everything I've been saying about this conflict for the past two years is becoming increasingly obviously true. Meanwhile, people who have been peddling western propaganda are looking like clowns at this point. The fact that you lack any capacity for self reflection is just amazing.
Maybe ask yourself how is it that Russia isn't collapsing like you were promised, that Russian economy is outperforming the west, that Russian army is becoming stronger than NATO. This all being openly discussed by the same western media that said all those things would happen. Yet, here you are bleating about Russian propaganda.
None of that really matters when Russia is the one that is invading a foreign country and killing its citizens. Funny how all of you keep ignoring that or you just recite the Russian government propaganda.
Russia doesn't share your assumption that it is a foreign country. That assumption is rather limited to English propaganda, and Russia hasn't invested much resources in countering institutional propaganda in the English world - they don't need to fight a pointless war at that front.
I don't care what Russia thinks. Pretty much the entire world agrees that Ukraine is a foreign country and if it weren't I wonder why it let Ukraine have its own government and so on.
It matters a whole lot actually because this a proxy war between NATO and Russia. NATO is just as responsible for what's happening, and in fact we now know that it was the west that intervened to stop negotiations in Istanbul that could've stopped the war back in 2022. Bleating about Russian propaganda isn't going to change the facts of the situation.
What I recite is what mainstream western media openly says now, and if you claim that's Russian propaganda then you're exposing yourself as a troll.
Russia invaded Ukraine. NATO didn't.
30% population of pre-SMO Ukraine was Russian. And a dicriminated minority. Who invaded whom is a matter of how well versed you are with one side of propaganda and how ignorant of the other.
Please provide evidence to the contrary then.
It's extremely easy to find tons of images of russian troops invading Ukraine.
I have yet to find any images of Ukraine invading Russia.
Russian side of propaganda is not too difficult to find, even in the English world. Why don't you do a google search by yourself and list 10 results of what you found ?
Why would I go out of my way to prove your point? Why would I ever look for Russian propaganda?
Your argument is yours to prove not mine.
You haven't substantiated your own assertion about NATO not invading Russia. It is your point at stake. I simply pointed you to an undeniable fact that torpedos your assertion, and pointed you to relevant literature, which you are refusing to look into.
Your point stands logically punctured. Feel free to flee.
Lol. You can't just say without sources that NATO invaded Russia and then get mad when I deny it. That's like the people that claim that the earth is flat say that everyone else has to prove otherwise.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, and you have none.
Flat eathers actually give what they think is evidenxe fir their claims.
Looks like you haven't actually read much there either.
Lol, says the dude that gives no evidence.
Says the guy who needs no evidence for his beliefs.
Wow comeback ๐ฒ
This is an infantile understanding of the situation. NATO expansion was the cause of the invasion as even Stoltenberg has now admitted publicly.
Why did the countries choose to join NATO? Maybe it was because Russia is a threat. A fact that was later proved by the invasion of Ukraine which actually made more countries join NATO.
Because US has a massive propaganda machine and literally overthrows governments that aren't compliant. Entire books have been written on this subject, and yet here you are spewing ignorant drivel smugly.
Russia invaded Ukraine. The USA didn't. They have also done terrible things but we are discussing the invasion of Ukraine now.
Just because the USA has overthrown governments doesn't give Russia any right to invade Ukraine many years later.
here you are spewing ignorant drivel smugly.
Ditto. A country which is so afraid of freedoms and rights can't be trusted. Any reasonable country allows journalists to live.
Why did the countries choose to join NATO?
Maybe it was because Russia is a threat. A fact that was later proved by the invasion of Ukraine which actually made more countries join NATO.
If we are making hypothesis, USA bullying smaller countries into joining its own gang is much more probable. After all, it is not disputed that USA has been bullying everyone into forcing sanctions against Russia and only big countries like India and Germany have been able take a stand against American bullying.
My country joined because of Russia and their invasion of Ukraine not because of the USA.
Whatever makes you feel better. I am done here. I'll leave some reading material for you though.
If you haven't read actual Russian propaganda so far, I'd highly recommend reading the entire Big Serge's Substack for a rather informed take from perspective of a Russian in USA.
Enjoy these long reads with good tea.
I suggest you grow up.