this post was submitted on 19 Nov 2021
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My life without a smartphone is getting harder and harder | Jen Wasserstein (www.theguardian.com)
submitted 2 years ago by tomasz@lemmy.ml to c/technology@lemmy.ml
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[–] robb@lemmy.ml 7 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Prolly I'll be in the minority here. But blaming the tech itself seems the wrong way to go. Technology advance and adoption has been part of our species for thousands of years, and this is no different. So needing certain tech to do our every day human activities is normal. We should focus our attention towards what large companies who control this tech (mostly) are doing with this and how they are using it in order to control us and profit from us.

A de-googled android smartphone will get rid of most of the issues caused by large tech, and still retain most of the advantages. Sadly de-googled android is not consumer - ready yet though, so it's a real option for the more technically inclined. But then again, this might be an issue more related to technical literacy?

[–] poVoq@lemmy.ml 6 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Most of the bank apps don't work on de-googled Android phones however.

[–] Arcadius@lemmy.ml 3 points 2 years ago (1 children)

The apps may not all work but the websites will work when you set the browser to desktop mode. That is how I get my banking done on LineageOS with Firefox.

[–] sexy_peach@feddit.de 4 points 2 years ago

But you need the app or a tan generator to login with many banks now. The app works as a second factor authenticator in that instance, which the website can't do

[–] alixandercourt@lemmy.ml 5 points 2 years ago

In the state I live in, they are rolling out virtual IDs.

[–] kixik@lemmy.ml 5 points 2 years ago

But QR codes can be printed out, can't they? As long as holding your ID, and the printed thing, wouldn't that be enough?

[–] musicmatze@lemmy.ml 5 points 2 years ago (4 children)

You even need an app for accessing your bank account. At least in the EU!

[–] nutomic@lemmy.ml 7 points 2 years ago (1 children)

My bank just sends SMS codes for verification, no app needed (Spain).

[–] musicmatze@lemmy.ml 5 points 2 years ago (1 children)

It's an EU norm, not yet unforced AFAIK, but mobileTAN will be removed anytime soon. My bank(s) removed it mid 2021 and introduced mandatory apps or TAN generator.

[–] sexy_peach@feddit.de 3 points 2 years ago

same happened to me. Now I can choose if I want to purchase a tan generator or use the app

[–] poVoq@lemmy.ml 6 points 2 years ago (1 children)

That is mostly false info banks like to tell their customers as their shitty apps allow them to shift the burden of proof in some fraud cases to the customers and also allow them to outsource some customer relation parts.

The relevant new EU legislation only requires there to be a second factor for authentication, but does not require an smart-phone app at all.

Look for a more honest bank with better customer service would be my advise. My bank does have an app as well, but it isn't required at all.

[–] musicmatze@lemmy.ml 6 points 2 years ago

AFAIK the other option as second factor is a tan generator that one has to buy. I don't know of any bank in Germany that has another second factor or will provide one in the future

[–] onlooker@lemmy.ml 5 points 2 years ago (2 children)

Tell me about it. Apparently there are some banks that still allow you to pay for stuff online without having to own a phone. Unfortunately, my country has exactly zero of them. I checked. All our banks now need their app on their customers' phone to verify their online purchases. And I don't have a Play Store on my phone, so that's fun.

[–] musicmatze@lemmy.ml 3 points 2 years ago

Think of all the old people that do not know how to use a smartphone and don't want one ...

[–] ksynwa@lemmy.ml 3 points 2 years ago (1 children)

You mean for accessing your bank account from a phone? Or just accessing your account in general?

[–] musicmatze@lemmy.ml 5 points 2 years ago (1 children)

In General, because you need an app as second factor.

[–] kixik@lemmy.ml 2 points 2 years ago (2 children)

How about code being sent through SMS? Or using an OTH token, or something not forcing an app? Where I live, what's worse about those token apps, is that some do not work if not under google play. Some do, but most don't. I had to show them their app didn't work in a LOS4uG phone (no GApps at all), and they sold me the OATH token, they were not even going to sell it to me, because banks are enforcing the app, which to me it's a horrible practice. But banks are private entities, so I don't know if there can be legal actions filed against those practices, though I'm no lawyer, neither I have time, neither money to start such demands, but I'm thinking it should be possible.

In my country the government is also trying to enforce QR codes through an app, right now the enforcement was put on pause, given an action filed against it, but I'm suspecting it'll still be enforced in the end... It's sad to see where things are moving...

[–] musicmatze@lemmy.ml 5 points 2 years ago (1 children)

SMS as 2FA is not allowed anymore in the EU starting some time in 2022, IIRC. Not 100% sure though.

[–] ArtilectZed@lemmy.ml 3 points 2 years ago (1 children)
[–] kixik@lemmy.ml 4 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

But this are randomly generated numbers, short term lived. They don't make any sense to anyone, if not having the other authentication factors, in the multi factor authentication. That's why they are multi factor (2nd in most cases). And those banks token apps, I guess they provide client server encryption, which bumps up security on the token sent a bit, but in my mind not enough to say just because you receive SMS tokens, it's quite easy to get into you bank account, without having all authentication factors at hand, and all the time, remember those tokens are short lived.

[–] ArtilectZed@lemmy.ml 3 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

They aren't going to bother trying to get the 2fa code until they already have your password, and by then, it's already too late.

Like this kid, did a SIM swap attack and hijacked 2fa codes.

https://www.engadget.com/canada-cryptocurrency-arrest-171617452.html

[–] 3arn0wl@lemmy.ml 4 points 2 years ago

That's a really good piece. It chimes a lot with me. I too just have a dumb-phone at the moment.

(And I try not to internet shop either)