this post was submitted on 27 Jan 2024
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[–] andrewrgross@slrpnk.net 46 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (2 children)

Look, I'm going to suggest sidestepping the fact that an article about what Gazaans want cites IDF spokespeople and "Reports from Palestinian media" without actually citing any and ask a question I don't see enough.

What instructive lessons does the article provide? What should we do based on this?

If we assume the article is 100% true, we should be demanding a ceasefire and the establishment of a peace process. If this article is true, then the IDF campaign is a horrific humanitarian disaster that is punishing Gazaans and establishing a condition in which Hamas' power is unshakable within Gaza. There's no room for a political challenger, and there's no safe space to criticize Hamas. There's no possibility of revolution or political protest, because everyone is starving and there is no social or communication infrastructure.

I'm now going to address the elephant in the room: the article is useless as a piece of journalism, because it consists of an unreliable media outlet relying entirely on unreliable sources. I'm not saying it's wrong, just that it has no credibility or facts. From what I've read, Hamas was highly unpopular before the war, but has become far more popular as they've established themselves as the only group willing and able to challenge what looks to Palestinians like Netanyahu's attempt at genocide. You can read about this in the AP, which is an actual news source citing an actual poll:

https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-palestinians-opinion-poll-wartime-views-a0baade915619cd070b5393844bc4514

But guess what? If Gazaans want to overthrow Hamas, we need a ceasefire. If the war has made Hamas more popular, then we need a ceasefire.

The war is a disaster. It is a failure in every measure except the intended ones: it's an exercise in vengence, an attempt for the humiliated generals to massage their bruised egos, and an ongoing attempt by Netanyahu to keep his only remaining supporters -- Jewish supremacists -- happy while he tries to stay out of jail.

In every other measure -- rescuing hostages, securing Israeli safety, defeating Hamas -- this is an unmitigated disaster that we need to stop.

[–] fukhueson@lemmy.world 2 points 9 months ago

Similar reporting, but I think discussed an important caveat to the polling:

https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/21/middleeast/palestinians-back-hamas-survey-intl-cmd/index.html

But Shikaki cautions that higher support for Hamas should not be over-stated, at least not yet. As more Palestinians come to terms with the atrocities committed by Hamas on October 7, so attitudes could change — though that is unlikely to be the case so long as Gaza remains under massive attack.

Important again is how many people have watched videos from October 7 and the differences between the territories. In Gaza, 25% of those asked said they had viewed such videos; and 16% of all respondents told researchers Hamas had committed war crimes. In the West Bank, the corresponding numbers were just 7% and 1%.

Gaza is moving out of denial more quickly than the West Bank, Shikaki says, and that means a reckoning for Hamas. Already, only 38% of Gazans want to see the militant group return to governance after the war.

[–] limonfiesta@lemmy.world 23 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Does this mean I should use AJ to source credible information on internal Israeli politics? How about Russia Today for reporting on Ukrainian morale?

Seriously, stop posting wartime propaganda and pretending it's credible journalism.

[–] speaker_hat@lemmy.one -2 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)
[–] Doorbook@lemmy.world 6 points 9 months ago

The attack on Palestinians civilians accompanied by attempted to justify the genocide as "The elected hamas so the deserve it" now even if this true then they should stop.

These all just statement to make people think they have an out while the genocide continues as the Israeli PM says, from the rever to the sea.

Everyone should be a shamed to enable genocidal militry based colonizing state while crying about Hitler and WWII saying never again.

It never stop.. read history...

[–] AlmightySnoo@lemmy.world 6 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 children)

I can confirm that in the attached video they're saying in Arabic "A-shaab yurid isqa't Hamas" which literally means "the people want to overthrow Hamas" (Google Translate link for the skeptics: الشعب يريد إسقاط حماس ). Way to go ✊

For some context on why having a huge crowd shout that particular slogan isn't insignificant: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ash-shab_yurid_isqat_an-nizam

[–] fukhueson@lemmy.world 2 points 9 months ago

From your link too, said previously in 2023 by Palestinians against Hamas in the economic protests:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2023_Gaza_economic_protests

In July and August 2023, thousands of Palestinians in the Gaza Strip took to the streets to protest chronic power outages, poor economic conditions in the territory, and Hamas's taxation of stipends to the poor paid by Qatar. The rallies, organized by a grassroots online movement called "Alvirus Alsakher" (The mocking virus), were a rare public display of discontent against the ruling Hamas government. Hamas bars most demonstrations and public displays of discontent.

[–] Burn_The_Right@lemmy.world 5 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (2 children)

This feels like an obvious setup to start bombing Al-Mawasi.

[–] philo@lemmy.zip -5 points 9 months ago

See. Spin till it fits your bias.

[–] speaker_hat@lemmy.one 3 points 9 months ago

Hamas exploitation of civilians is part of their military tactic.

If it wasn't part of their tactic, the Palestinians civilians won't be in such suffer now.

Per Hamas 2017 charter, there is no indication about “civil rights” or “civil safety”, so they actually (unfortunately) don’t care: https://web.archive.org/web/20240112193141/https://irp.fas.org/world/para/docs/hamas-2017.pdf

[–] muse@kbin.social 1 points 9 months ago

Extended headline probably: Gazans call for Hamas overthrow, flee theough IDF humanitarian corridor, shot while waving white flags by IDF

[–] Limitless_screaming@kbin.social 1 points 9 months ago

الشعب يريد؟. Well, it seems like the time has come for the Palestinians to raise their flag instead of the Hamas one. Oh, silly me, they actually cannot; they're under "the IDF's protection" currently. They will stay under their protection after Hamas falls too. Their natural resources and land will be protected with them to starve the Hamas regime forever.

[–] autotldr@lemmings.world 0 points 9 months ago

This is the best summary I could come up with:


The IDF has established a humanitarian corridor in recent days for Palestinian residents of western Khan Yunis to move from combat areas to the town of Al-Mawasi in southwestern Gaza, IDF Arabic spokesperson Avichay Adraee announced on Saturday.

Adraee said that Gazan residents would be safe in Al-Mawasi and that the corridor has been opened to evacuate civilians every day so that the IDF can focus on fighting the Hamas terrorist organization and deepening its incursion into Khan Yunis without the risk of civilians being injured in the process.

Adraee also quoted a number of Gazan civilians passing through the corridor, who informed IDF soldiers that Hamas was preventing them from leaving combat areas, using threats and violence.

COGAT official Major-General Rasan Aliyan said that "In recent days, we see more and more evidence of public criticism voiced by the residents of Gaza against the terrorist organization Hamas.

The residents of the Gaza Strip rightly prefer their well-being and the safety of their children over the continued military strengthening of Hamas and the terrorist activities that harm them and their future."

Reports from Palestinian media have stated there are more voices of Gazans coming out against Hamas, "which controls prices of food and humanitarian aid."


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