this post was submitted on 19 Jan 2024
10 points (75.0% liked)

No Stupid Questions

2279 readers
1 users here now

There is no such thing as a Stupid Question!

Don't be embarrassed of your curiosity; everyone has questions that they may feel uncomfortable asking certain people, so this place gives you a nice area not to be judged about asking it. Everyone here is willing to help.


Reminder that the rules for lemmy.ca still apply!


Thanks for reading all of this, even if you didn't read all of this, and your eye started somewhere else, have a watermelon slice 🍉.


founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
 

First off, i live in Europe, so i honestly don't know too much about politics in other parts of the world, other than what i sometimes see in the news. I hope my innocent question doesn't trigger any nastiness.

My question is; in discussions i see only talk about democrats vs republicans, for instance discussions only about Biden and/or Trump. But my understanding is that there are other political parties one can vote for. However, i never see any mention of them. So, is it that most people are not interested in those? Or maybe they don't get enough media time? Or are they seen as too extreme? Are the US basically a two-party system? And does it change over time? There are a lot of worries in the world - i don't need to name all of them - but this seems to trigger more extreme views. Does this mean that those other parties attract more voters nowadays?

top 11 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] CarbonIceDragon@pawb.social 22 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (1 children)

They exist, but are only really relevant at the local level, or rarely as a spoiler effect if one gets vaguely popular. This isn't so much that people don't want other options, but mostly because the US system is badly designed. The US has a first past the post, winner take all type system, ie, if you win the most votes in a given election, you win that spot and it's all yours. That makes some intuitive sense, but is actually not the most democratic option, as it means that parties that have, say, 20% of the population supporting them don't get 20% of the seats, they get none of them, because for each individual seat, they won't win the most votes. Worse, such a party will cause the major party it is less similar to to win, because it's voters voted for them rather than the major party it was most similar to, so even if the voters on that side of the political spectrum are in the majority, their votes are split among multiple parties where their rivals that stay as one party can then be the single largest one. The US system accidentally makes it mathematically inevitable for two and only two parties to dominate.

Historically they have switched up once or twice, when one party became so unpopular that it basically became nonviable, and a different party rose to replace it, and once the current major parties have swapped ideology more or less, but this kind of thing is very rare.

[–] Papanca@lemmy.world 6 points 8 months ago (2 children)

Thank you for your elaborate reply. It sounds very...disheartening to have such a system in place, both for voters and the people who are members of these other parties.

[–] Bangs42@lemmy.world 5 points 8 months ago

That's because it is.

[–] CarbonIceDragon@pawb.social 1 points 8 months ago (1 children)

It's a constant source of frustration to be honest

[–] Papanca@lemmy.world 1 points 8 months ago

I can only imagine, i already feel frustrated reading about this while i don't even live there!

[–] robolemmy@lemmy.world 9 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Because the US doesn’t have proportional representation and uses “first past the post” voting, basically any vote for a third party candidate is wasted.

There are other parties but their main effect is to sway elections by “stealing” votes from the two main parties. There’s a group trying to form a party called “No Labels” right now but if you look at their financial backers, you can clearly see they only exist to try to weaken democrats.

Admittedly there are some other parties that genuinely try to get elected, such as the Green Party, but they rarely succeed in even the tiniest local elections.

[–] Papanca@lemmy.world 1 points 8 months ago

Thank you for your reply, i'm starting to get a sense of how this works in the US

[–] DigitalTraveler42@lemmy.world 7 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

The rest of these posts focuses on how insignificant the third parties are, however the real reason is that our democracy was designed as an adversarial democracy, it's been designed so that the two major parties, whatever those two major parties are, are supposed to be in a balance of compromise while also locked into a battle for control. The theory behind this is basically that through the adversarial process a measure of balance would be achieved.

Obviously the design is broken as we're on the road to a second civil war, however that too might be by design as Jefferson, one of the architects of our democracy, can be quoted as saying "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants" so maybe they just saw revolution/civil war as a natural occurrence in their design.

As for third party replacements, the Republicans, if they lose and keep bowing to trump and losing popularity, are facing the chance to be replaced by another political party, most likely it will be the Democrats that become the conservative party again, as they were prior to the civil rights movement and the Southern Strategy , as many neocon Republicans have left their now far right party to join the much more moderate democrats, so in theory a new Leftist/Liberal party would arise to take their place. So to achieve that first the Republican party would need to continue it's downward spiral, and then a third party would need to pass a certain threshold for votes, once that's done we would have our new two parties.

It also doesn't help that the current most popular third parties, Green and Libertarian, are both heavily funded by both Right wing and foreign sources, so even their marginal successes currently are dubious.

Now with this all said I'm sure someone who's actually got law degrees or political science degrees could explain this better and more accurately but this is as I understand it, overall we have a lot of hurdles to overcome but until the Republican party crumbles away we're stuck with a party that has turned into the Qult of Donald Trump who wants to end democracy completely so that they can have all of the power and control, and that's why we must not focus on third parties but instead focus on beating the wannabe tyrants that want to turn our country into the Trump kingdom.

[–] snekerpimp@lemmy.world 6 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Yes. Consolidation of power. It sucks. They have found we are easier to control when you just have a bad choice and a worse choice. Easier to divide into “us vs them”. And we have too many people that ate lead paint chips when they were young running things that think this is the only way and refuse to change it.

[–] Papanca@lemmy.world 3 points 8 months ago (1 children)

That sounds like they - democrats and republicans - would not have any incentive to change this by law, to make it more fair...

[–] snekerpimp@lemmy.world 4 points 8 months ago

They don’t. Corporations buy them off and force their agenda through the system, further entrenching their power. Also, in America, companies have the same freedoms and rights as individuals, according to Citizens United vs FEC.. So now I’m sure foreign entities are now using this avenue as well to further their agendas.

We need a good old “French Revolution”.