I wonder at what point the people who claim this is justifiable retaliation will admit that this has gone far beyond anything that could possibly be justified?
this post was submitted on 25 Dec 2023
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Nothing like self defending against a refugee camp on Christmas Night.
The entire "saving the hostages" narrative is already being fully dropped and it's just "we gotta destroy all 'hamas' infrastructure".
Articles from even mainstream medisbare coming out that the Hospitals had no Hamas bases or tunnels underneath them at all.
But the guys defending the IDF won't stop no matter how much evidence is presented to them so it's pretty likely they've got financial motivation.
Exactly. And when the IDF themselves are killing hostages waving white flags, this is not about the hostages.
Probably never? Sounds like any critique is spun as being “Hamas propaganda”. No logic allowed.
Probably. It was sort of a rhetorical question. Once you excuse genocide, you're never going back.
The latest military line is essentially "Hamas operates where people are concentrated so we need to kill all the people and their families and genocide all of Palestine to remove Hamas"...
INCLUDING THE HOSTAGES! That's the craziest part! They aren't even worried about killing the hostages they claimed were the whole reason this started!
I'm probably one of those people. The threshold between legitimate and illegitimate war won't be resolved until after the conflict, since the fog of war guarantees we have no way of knowing the full true picture of why these civilians are dying. You may have biases that make it easier for you to make that decision yourself, but no real knowledge is gained that way.
This is not about numbers, it's about the end goal. About what a victory of each side would look like. So I'm still (rather blindly, admittedly, but that's how it is for you as well) on the side of the more modern and liberal civilization that did not start the war.
Meanwhile, the war that spunned the Gaza war in addition to a whole lot more bullshit around the world, i.e. Russia's unprovoked attack on Ukraine is still raging on. And it's not looking good right now for the civilized world. Given how it's much more important a war, and given how Palestine has chosen to support the wrong side of it, it's easier to support Israel in Gaza.
we have no way of knowing the full true picture of why these civilians are dying
Let me clear this one up for you, they're dying because Israel is killing them.
Nope.
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Are they civilians or Hamas fighters?
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If they are civilians, are they being used as human shields?
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Is Hamas killing them and reporting them as killed by IDF?
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Are the figures correct?
Not clear at all, as you can see.
No, this is created obfuscation in an attempt to justify what's happening. Ask yourself, if Isreal wasn't continuing this onslaught, would these people be dying? That's the clarity.
If Hamas hadn't attacked on Oct 7, would these people have died? No, they wouldn't.
If Hamas surrendered, would these people continue to die? No, they wouldn't.
If Israel hadn't blockaded Gaza for a decade and a half, or occupied Palestine for 75 years, or or or. We can play this game for eternity, or look at the reality that people, actual people not abstract arguments, are dying. And that needs to stop.
actual people not abstract arguments, are dying. And that needs to stop.
I agree on that. What I don't understand is why it's considered more Israel's than Hamas's responsibility to stop the war.
Because Israel is the occupying force with a full military and international backing currently bombing a captive population compromised mostly of children. Why is that hard to understand?
They are there to fight against a terrorist group who attack them on a constant basis, and they would stop their war immediately if said terrorist group surrendered. Population mostly comprised of children is not their fault, it has come about from one of the highest birth rates in the world. Israel is the occupying force in very much the same way as Allies were an occupying force in Germany in 1945. They are occupying the area to destroy an extremely harmful entity.
Are these things also hard to understand?
Yes. Why do you think this terrorist group is there and constantly attacks?
Like the original nazis, they have an amazingly disturbed view of the world and are willing and capable of committing to that view.
I highly recommend doing research on the situation that isn't filtered through Western propaganda or a zionist lens and doing some introspection on why you believe the people being caged, controlled, and experiencing ethnic cleansing for decades are nazis.
They are obviously not the exact same as nazis, just similar in a lot of ways. Also nazism got started because Germany was seriously maltreated in the aftermath of WW1. History gives a reason why people are today what they are, but it doesn't excuse it.
Yikes. A brutal, vicious attack to see.
Israel is commiting genocide.
Merry Christmas, ya filthy animal...?