this post was submitted on 09 Dec 2023

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252

Biden administration uses emergency authority to sell tank shells to Israel (amp.theguardian.com)

submitted 10 months ago by Bleach7297@lemmy.ca to c/world@lemmy.world

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[–] Maggoty@lemmy.world 77 points 10 months ago (3 children)

And we can't do this for Ukraine because?

[–] Arelin@lemmy.zip 36 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Because Israel is more profitable of course. Whatever "justifications" the US uses for war are always just excuses to earn the ruling capitalist class more profit.

Capitalism just follows the money. Though if there's enough protests and riots at home, the cost of managing that would outweigh the profit of genocoding native Palestinians.

[–] DarkGamer@kbin.social 0 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 children)

And we can’t do this for Ukraine because?

Because Israel is more profitable of course.

Supporting Ukraine would benefit those same companies so I'm not sure what you're on about.

[–] tgxn@lemmy.tgxn.net 3 points 9 months ago (1 children)

I think he's saying Israel has more money to buy the weapons.

[–] Arelin@lemmy.zip 5 points 9 months ago

Strengthening Israel's military also gives them more power and influence over the oil in the middle east, and keeps the countries from uniting against the imperial core.

[–] SCB@lemmy.world 7 points 9 months ago (2 children)

Because Republicans

[–] Maggoty@lemmy.world 7 points 9 months ago

No, this specifically goes around the House and Senate.

[–] DarkGamer@kbin.social 0 points 9 months ago

It's clear many of them are owned by Putin, Trump practically kissed his ring in Helsinki.

[–] NoLifeGaming@lemmy.world 6 points 9 months ago

Because our government is bought by AIPAC

[–] gravitas_deficiency@sh.itjust.works 70 points 9 months ago (2 children)

Tank shells. Against an adversary that doesn’t have tanks.

[–] Hugin@lemmy.world 32 points 9 months ago

They classified encryption as a munition so now they can just classify journalists as a tank. Problem solved.

[+] SCB@lemmy.world -6 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Tanks are mobile artillery. They're not only designed for fighting other tanks.

[–] gravitas_deficiency@sh.itjust.works 15 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (2 children)

What you’re talking about is a self-propelled gun. An SPG is not an MBT. That’s like saying a Baja trophy truck is the same as a McLaren Le Mans endurance prototype are the same because they both have 4 wheels and are fast.

You can use a tank as indirect fire support, but that is absolutely not what they are designed to do, and they aren’t nearly as good at it as dedicated platforms.

And moreover, Israel is fighting in urban environments. Urban environments eat tanks alive. This is stupid on multiple logistical, geopolitical, and ethical levels.

[–] HighElfMage@lemmy.world 0 points 9 months ago

Artillery isn't only indirect fires the category of direct fire artillery exists. Tanks only get eaten alive in urban environments when they're poorly supported. The US has used tanks in urban areas from Hue to Baghdad without problems.

Tanks' primary role is infantry support and for that job they have a big gun. You know what's useful when there's a bunch of guys holed up in a city building, firing at you? A really big gun you can point directly at them and give them hell.

[–] SCB@lemmy.world -4 points 9 months ago

Tanks are direct fire support. Israel has been effectively using tanks in Gaza for years.

This is a super weird fight to pick.

[–] SulaymanF@lemmy.world 68 points 10 months ago (2 children)

Meanwhile Israel unequivocally killed a journalist with a tank shell. https://www.reuters.com/graphics/ISRAEL-LEBANON/JOURNALIST/akveabxrzvr/

Israel is not investigating nor punishing, so it’s an actual war crime then. Will Biden put ANY restrictions on weapons to Israel?

[–] Emma_Gold_Man@lemmy.dbzer0.com 33 points 9 months ago

No. He's been real clear about that. Neither will Trump.

Short of armed insurrection, US subjects have no control on this one. The ones that are arming for insurrection also support the genocide. FML

[–] DarkGamer@kbin.social -4 points 9 months ago

Israel is not investigating nor punishing

The article you linked says they are:

In the days after the attack, Israel’s military said it was reviewing what had happened, but it has not made any findings public.

[–] BobGnarley@lemm.ee 10 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 children)

Just a reminder if you take Zyrtec in the USA that the liquid gel caps ones are made in Israel but the childrens liquid is made in Switzerland. Avoid Israeli products when you can

[–] Bleach7297@lemmy.ca 12 points 9 months ago

Boycotting Israeli products is one of the only things you can do, since the US government seems complicit.

https://bdsmovement.net/get-involved/what-to-boycott

[–] Cosmonauticus@lemmy.world 0 points 10 months ago (2 children)

There's been a lot of posts about Palestinians and Muslims seriously arguing sitting out the next presidential election. To all the ppl who constantly argue how stupid and reactionary doing so is, what exactly are they suppose to do?

Simply vote for the man who is actively supplying the weapons to kill your family/kill ppl just like you because Trump is a giant bigot? Thankfully i don't have to make such a decision but I wouldn't blame anyone (especially the family of a dead relative bombed by Israel) to sit this next election out.

For Muslims and Palestinians this next election is a Murderer vs a Murdering racist

[–] CyanFen@lemmy.one 0 points 10 months ago (1 children)

As is always the case when it comes to elections, choosing to not vote for the lesser evil is just voting for the greater evil

[–] Poggervania@kbin.social -1 points 10 months ago

Which is unfortunate because it then becomes a matter of “I am voting against the candidate I don’t like” rather than “I am voting for the candidate I like”, and the voice of the people get lost.

[–] Dio@lemy.lol -1 points 10 months ago

"Murdering racist"

Got any more myopic, reactionary blasphemy in there?

[+] chitak166@lemmy.world -38 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (4 children)

Genocidan biden

I think I'll vote for Trump next election. Tired of this 'lesser-evil' bullshit.

Blame the liberals who keep voting for "moderates."

[–] PM_me_your_vagina_thanks@kbin.social 20 points 10 months ago (1 children)

And here we have a true fucking moron.

[–] Stoneykins@mander.xyz 15 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (3 children)

I'm so tired of people saying not voting for biden is completely equivalent to voting for trump, but this is stupid.

[–] Spacehooks@reddthat.com 5 points 9 months ago

It's because of the view of Not voting for Hillary over what the DNC did help give us trump. People are too afraid of GOP to vote third party or even more progressive dems.

[–] chitak166@lemmy.world 4 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 children)

Well, what we've been doing thus far hasn't been working.

Only a fool would keep trying the same thing but expecting different results.

I think the real stupid ones are the people voting for the 'lesser-evil.' Maybe if they lost a few elections they'd change their tune.

Funny how it's always progressive's fault, though. If a moderate loses? Progressive's fault for not 'falling in line.' If a progressive loses, though, nobody will blame the moderate for not 'falling in line.' If a Progressive wins, nobody is going to acknowledge it's because they were progressive.

It's a lose-lose all around, and that's by design. I'd rather stop pretending that the lesser-evil leads to improvements because it does not. They're both just looking out for different rich people, and in many cases the same.

If you don't like it, then encourage people to vote for better candidates! If dems are truly afraid of losing elections, run better candidates and don't just favor the 'establishment.'

If they can't do that, then they deserve to lose. I don't care if you blame me.

[–] Stoneykins@mander.xyz 4 points 9 months ago (1 children)

I agree with and understand a lot of your frustrations, as they are also my frustrations.

But you basically said "I'm tired of voting for the lesser of two evils, so now I will vote for the greater of two evils." Just vote 3rd party or something, and try to not take it personally when people are assholes about elections.

[–] chitak166@lemmy.world 5 points 9 months ago

Yeah, I could vote 3rd party.

I guess it would depend on how flippant the establishment democrats and their constituency are behaving.

[–] snek@lemmy.world 0 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 children)

Sadly the reality of a two party state system makes it so.

[–] Stoneykins@mander.xyz 5 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 children)

The two party problem as a result of first past the post means that not voting against the party you dislike more can result in a spoiler effect, and reduce the chances of the not-as-bad mainstream party winning the election. But, I reject that that spoiler effect is necessarily as bad as voting directly for the worse candidate, it is mathematically untrue. Many people try to insist they are equivalent to try and motivate voting, but I think it has the opposite effect, making people feel apathetic about the entire voting process.

Under first past the post we cannot be free of the biases of the system that enforces two parties, BUT it is possible to rarely, with a big movement of people, swap a third party with on of the major parties to replace it as a major party. The way I see voting 3rd party in situations like this is like the prisonor's dilemma. People are motivated individually to cast their votes strategically for the major party they prefer by the spoiler effect, but if enough people collectively vote 3rd party then the outcome would be better for everyone. Thus, I cannot agree with or accept people claiming voting third party is unacceptable. It might not be likely to be effective, but it is hopeful and not nearly as misguided as people try to insist it is.

Also, Idk if this even applies to me, I'll probably be using my vote strategically. I just support people's right to vote 3rd party.

[–] snek@lemmy.world 3 points 9 months ago

I think you're right.

[–] Bleach7297@lemmy.ca 11 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

So vote for the greater evil? I mean Trump's stated position on Gaza is to "let it play out" so he's for the genocide as well. He also promised to reject any refugees from Gaza.

He's also a nihilist, on top of being as much of a lying sack-of-shit as any other politician you can name.

So if you're voting for Trump, it's certainly not because you care about Gaza.

[–] lysol@lemmy.world 8 points 10 months ago

Oh, Trump, yeah the guy that think Russia is the 'lesser-evil'.