This is the way it should be everywhere. I'm sorry but tipping before the order is even delivered creates a fucked up incentive with the drivers and the people getting food. Especially when apps like DoorDash make it very apparent. Who tipped well before they even pick up food. The tip should always be rendered after service.
this post was submitted on 05 Dec 2023
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The tip should be rendered never, people should be paid a living wage.
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(12 replies)
This has always annoyed me about food delivery services. Tips are supposed to be reflective of the service delivered. How can I know if that service is going to be good before a driver is even assigned to my order? Prompt after the delivery to add a tip.
Secondary note, if a company cannot pay their employees a living wage without tips than said company shouldn't exist. Nobody should have to rely on tips to...you know...exist.
So, I deliver for DoorDash from time to time, and it’s made me change how I view tipping in these apps.
I’m not tipping for quality of service (it’s hard to be ‘good’ vs ‘great’ on pick up, drive, drop off as a service, and if the driver manages to do that badly, DoorDash will make it right for you and ding the driver). Instead I’m tipping based on quantity of work, e.g., the distance I’m asking the driver to cover or the size/weight of the order if it’s something like groceries. While this is something that DoorDash should be doing, it’s not and is left to the customer to close the gap voluntarily.
DoorDash likes to act like they’re just connecting customers to people that want to make a delivery, but they’ve set up the system to feel like DoorDash is the service provider rather than the drivers. In reality, drivers should be setting their fees as independent contractors and DoorDash should only be providing the interface.
Tips are definitely not the answer, but...
if a company cannot pay their employees a living wage without tips
Actually, where I live, we don't have a tip, but companies won't even if they can. The sad truth is that businesses won't without pressure. They just call it a social problem, weakness of their country, whatever.
It's a false assumption.
Again, I believe tips are not the answer.
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I'd be more satisfied if they just stopped calling them tips. They aren't a tip. Door Dash gives drivers about a $2.50 incentive to even bother looking at the orders that pop up, but it's up to them to decide whether to take the orders. So you're quietly negotiating with a complete stranger to go pick up some taco bell and bring it to your house at 3 a.m. it's a bid. Not a tip.
Calling it a tip is disingenuous and why a hell of a lot of people never "tip" at all.
Edit to add: The real abuse of their workers is that they talk out both sides of their mouth about how independent drivers are, but then they weight the system to punish drivers who don't take bad jobs. If that mess ended the service would improve for everyone on both sides of the order.
They’ve recently lowered the base pay to $2. I’ve had ‘offers’ pop up for $2 on a 10 mile delivery. If I were to accept that I’d be losing money on the delivery.
You say "losing money", but I want to quantify that for those reading along:
IRS allows us to claim $0.655 per mile in expenses. DoorDash's $2 base fee covers only the expenses on a 3 mile trip.
A 10 mile trip costs $6.55. DD pays $2.
But that's not the end of it. That 10-mile trip took me at least 4 miles outside of my zone. I need to get back to it before I can reasonably expect to receive offers again. I need about $9.17 before I earn one red cent. All that driving and waiting for your food took me about an hour. Just to make minimum wage, I need to gross $16.42. DD pays $2. I need about a $15 tip from you to make minimum wage.
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I would actually be interested in using an app like this where it's truly a bid... Sounds interesting.
I would argue that that's what we already were supposed to have. Or at least that's how it's marketed to prospective drivers. And then they find out that Door Dash can make you hurt if you don't want to drive 12 miles into a dangerous neighborhood for two dollars.
Tips are an excuse for employers not to pay their employees a livable wage. If you rely on tips to get by, your employer doesn't deserve to be in business.
I hate all these gig apps. Use them as little as possible.
Which is never. They don't provide anything you can't get with a tiny bit of effort.
If you're drunk or stoned, it's much better to order some delivery than to drive anywhere.
Obviously you could plan ahead to avoid this, but I would rather have gig apps than impaired drivers on the road.
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I'm about it. They pay more wages and people should be tipping cash anyway. You don't know if doordash properly pays out tips
They do pay out tips, because they got sued over not
So they didn't and now pinky swear that they do now.
Well, that's a positive development, though probably for the wrong reasons.
How is it not a thing everywhere? Great new feature. Very innovative. Now introduce it everywhere.
Tipping should be optional, a bonus for a good job. Not a subsidy for billionaires who can afford to pay their damn workers triple what they're making.
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How is that a protest? That’s actually a good thing.
Fuck tipping but this is just DoorDash being petty.
Ah man this company is being a real cunt and for that reason we should reduce wages.
... What? What is the goal?
Shifting all of the cost of their employees on to you like any buisiness that can get away with it.
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Just pay people a living wage. You know, like in other developed countries.
Well, it's a pretty ingenious way to get all the DoorDash drivers in Ny to quit I guess.
Was that their goal?
I don't get how this even benefits doordash. It wasn't costing doordash anything to route the customer's tip to the driver, was it? That money came directly from the customer, it didn't come out of the fees doordash collects. So whether or not the customer tips is immaterial to DD's bottom line, and this only hurts the drivers.
Why are they punishing the drivers for something the state did? Honestly vile.
Companies like Uber, Doordash, etc. think they're more important than they actually are. They want their drivers to quit in a "Oh yeah, well if we have to pay our drivers a minimum wage now then we don't want to do business here," sense. As if delivery services actually help local economies and don't strangle small businesses and exploit vulnerable job-seeking people. Good riddance, I'd love to see more cities run these companies into the ground.
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Unless they weren’t averaging $17.96/hr before this happened, in which case they might stick around
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Their "goal" was to get drivers to stop delivering in NYC so then drivers would complain and put pressure on politicians to reverse the min wage rule. They believe they're offering an essential service and it's disruption will make people rise up to their defense. What's really going to happen is that people won't give a shit and just move on to the next thing.
I mean fuck tipping though tbh
So better minimum wage laws also encourage businesses to make their user experience less hostile to users? Nice.
Remember DoorDash's decision to change their interface to stop asking users for more money, when they inevitably point to their riders and say minimum wage laws have reduced their income. They knew the riders in the areas affected by better minimum wage would benefit greatly if they left the experience as it is, and they don't want that used as evidence in other states for their own minimum wage laws. This us why they haven't changed the interface for other states, where their riders are still living on as little as DoorDash can legally get away with paying.
i mean i do hate tipping, it creates an uncomfortable power dynamic, having to sort of....'bribe' them like with these gig apps to get them to take your order sucks (versus like a proper pizza shop where you have 1st party guys who know the area and ups and downs of the job), menu prices and the shitty fees are already a joke, it's just miserable all around
but i'm sure the minimum wage increase is little esp in NYC - it probably just feels like it cancels out. overall there needs to be better reform on this. depending on tips sucks
It's crazy how they can't just be normal about it. Have tipping at the checkout screen, but don't have an option pre-selected/remember what the user chooses.
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