this post was submitted on 01 Dec 2023
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[–] joeyv120@ttrpg.network 58 points 11 months ago (2 children)

We need more good suicidal guys with guns to stop bad suicidal guys with guns.

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[–] Pons_Aelius@kbin.social 46 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (3 children)
[–] RGB3x3@lemmy.world 6 points 11 months ago (1 children)

I got downvoted real bad when I pointed this out to someone who said "making guns illegal just takes them away from people who need to defend themselves."

The defense excuse of gun ownership is a myth. It causes way more harm than good.

[–] aksdb@feddit.de 9 points 11 months ago (2 children)

That aside: the easier it is for good guys to get a gun, the easier it is for bad guys too.

And: where does that idea of a good guy stopping a bad guy come from even? If the bad guy is the better shoot, he still wins the fight. If he catches the good guy by surprise (which is likely given that bad acts are an action and not a reaction), he also has the upper hand.

So more guns solves exactly nothing, it only increases risks everywhere.

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[–] SendMePhotos@lemmy.world 5 points 11 months ago

That makes sense because of mishandling, mismanagement, and.. Wanting to die sometimes...

Most flight incidents happen on departure and arrival so of course most gun mishaps happen at home.

Guess what I'm saying is it all makes sense one way or the other.

[–] MedicPigBabySaver@lemmy.world 5 points 11 months ago (18 children)

Sadly. Gun nuts don't want to hear any of this. The U.S. gun culture is truly obscene.

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[–] Blackout@kbin.social 34 points 11 months ago (3 children)

Legalize doctor assisted suicide. Let people end their lives with dignity.

[–] JimboDHimbo@lemmy.ca 4 points 11 months ago

Bruh I'd vote for this

[–] prole@sh.itjust.works 2 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (3 children)

Yeah but I'm not so sure we should be allowing people to make that choice on a whim because they're depressed or feeling down at the time. Humans are wildly impulsive sometimes.

[–] Blackout@kbin.social 13 points 11 months ago (1 children)

They're not drive thru places. Typically you have to go thru counseling and thru evaluations to make sure it's what you want. But right now people are just buying guns to blow their heads off and leaving their body for first responders or their family to find. People are always going to kill themselves, you might as well make it a clean and dignified end.

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[–] Kepabar@startrek.website 4 points 11 months ago (5 children)

No one is suggesting a Futurama style suicide booth on the side of the road my man.

[–] hakunawazo@lemmy.world 2 points 11 months ago (7 children)

On topic: Dignity includes being able to determine one's own end. However, it is difficult to find a regulation that excludes knee-jerk reactions and external influence in the decision.

A distinction should also be made here between different forms of temporary mental problems and fatal physical illnesses as a reason for ending the own life.

That's why I'm not sure what I would support here.

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[–] recapitated@lemmy.world 2 points 11 months ago

They're already allowed....

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[–] m13@lemmy.world 33 points 11 months ago (7 children)

Late stage capitalism is alienating. Many people are faced with the reality that there’s little point to live when your only purpose is to be a wage slave for billionaires. There are no prospects of owning a home or being comfortable ever unless you’re born into wealth or willing to exploit others and put them into bad situations just so you can have a bit of comfort.

[–] Jessvj93@lemmy.world 6 points 11 months ago

And if you get behind, there's the stigma among conservatives about getting a helping hand. Bootstraps and all that, it's sad.

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[–] Chetzemoka@startrek.website 30 points 11 months ago

"Means Matter"

https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/means-matter/means-matter/

Reducing access to more lethal means of suicide reduces deaths by suicide in a population. The data on this is unequivocal.

That's because the majority of suicidal crises are spontaneous and of absurdly short duration, on the order of around 20 minutes. If you interrupt the process between decision and action, people survive. And 90% of people who survive a suicide attempt never go on to die by suicide at any future point in their lives.

[–] AlexWIWA@lemmy.ml 29 points 11 months ago (11 children)

A lot of people talking about means seem to be side stepping the fact that life is getting harder and that's probably why suicides are going up.

The means do matter, but the means aren't driving the wave we've seen this decade. Most suicides are finances and loneliness related. And even if someone does survive an attempt using another mean, the "help" is usually involuntary institutionalization which will make your life even worse. Even getting a driver's license is harder after that.

Not to discredit the means, I just think we need to take a hard look at everything surrounding said means. Society needs to fail someone 1,000 times before they pick up the final societal failure.

[–] kromem@lemmy.world 5 points 11 months ago

Social media is pretty poisonous for people, and has led to some extreme levels of alienation between people caught up in it and their close friends and family (which is the historical support network).

So people who see the world more like the strangers they have no practical connection with and obsess over the ways in which they see the world differently from those they actually have connections with leads to a very dark place.

There's a number of different factors going on, but I remember seeing private market research around two years ago at the striking divide even within households and realizing we were headed towards serious problems.

Everything is extremist, categorized by binary teams, and outrage driven.

That's not a recipe for a healthy social life, and not having a healthy social life or feeling apart from those in one's life can be devastating on mental health.

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[–] Dizzirron@lemmy.world 23 points 11 months ago

Prioritize your health y'all, these are no doubt strange times.

[–] cashews_best_nut@lemmy.world 21 points 11 months ago (5 children)

There's less and less reason to be alive. What the fuck is there to live for?

[–] MedicPigBabySaver@lemmy.world 18 points 11 months ago

I enjoy spending time with my friends I've known for 40+ years. Several of us were out last evening.

I try hard to focus on my personal "bubble". I always vote, yet, know I can't fix the system. I recycle and drive a small 4-cylinder Honda, yet, I know I can't fix climate change. Knowing I do even the smallest things allows me to try to keep my personal "bubble" closed to endless bullshit.

[–] hperrin@lemmy.world 8 points 11 months ago

What are you talking about?! There’s so much more profit you can generate for the shareholders!!

[–] Farticles@lemmy.world 3 points 11 months ago

But if you end it all now, think of all the debt you’re missing out on!!

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[–] BigMacHole@lemm.ee 16 points 11 months ago

Those people just need a Good Guy With a Gun to kill them before they killed themselfs!

[–] shalafi@lemmy.world 13 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (14 children)

This is by miles the worst firearm issue America has. Naive laws banning types of guns, magazine capacity, all that, do nothing for nearly half of all gun deaths.

Example after example shows that so much as inconveniencing a suicide is often enough to stop them. Guns are point and click. They are literally the most convenient way to surely die. This is why I didn't own a gun until I was 39, and most were bought recently at 50 or so. I wasn't mentally stable enough.

And if anyone wants to come in here screaming, "BAN all the things!", just don't. The 2A exists and the courts uphold it as an individual right, those are facts and not open to argument. And besides, I don't hear anyone screaming about a handgun ban. Long guns, shotguns/AR-15's/whatever, are something like 4% of gun deaths. Let's focus on reducing the most harm.

So what now? We somehow test people to practice their rights? There are plenty for whom I'd like to yank the 1A and the franchise. But I'm sorry, people are free to speak and vote in this country.

And if we impose some sort of test, what's the criteria, who administers it, who judges the results? What if one passes and later becomes suicidal?

I already know the answer to that one. Gun laws have always been, and always will be, racist. Don't take my word! Please look around for yourself on this one.

And don't start me with red flag laws, I know exactly how those would work out. Imagine vengeful exes, modern Brown Shirts, cops you pissed off, fuck me, even neighbors that are annoyed with you. While we're at it, let's just chunk the 4A right out the window.

Someone invariably starts talking mental health. And I'm 100% down with that, just as I am some form of universal health care. But here's the thing with the mentally ill, they often don't know they're sick or are too sick to go get help, even if it's free.

This is one of the most intractable problems in America, and I don't have a clue what can be done about it.

Anyone? I'm listening.

[–] MotoAsh@lemmy.world 12 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (3 children)

Yea, we definitely need a two-pronged (or more) approach to tackle it in the US. Mental health would go a loooooong way for both the suicides and mass shootings.

Red flag laws are just fine when written correctly. That's a ridiculous fear-mongering point. Not all of them are the same nor have the same agencies calling any shots.

You don't have a clue because you're being a pessemist about proven impacts. Red flag laws that target domestic violence and clinical depression have demonstrable impact on the problem. It's intractible because people like you refuse to accept that a step in the right direction is better than nothing. Your attitude is quite pathetic, and you are part of the problem when you go on about how nothing can be done.

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[–] assplode@kbin.social 4 points 11 months ago (1 children)

I am in a similar situation with my guns. I have two antique long guns. They're locked up, in the crawl space, and I don't keep any ammo in my house.

I have depression and I don't trust myself not to use my guns to kill myself. For me, the inconvenience of accessing them and obtaining ammo feels like a safe compromise.

I agree that this is an enormous problem with no easy solutions.

[–] shalafi@lemmy.world 2 points 11 months ago

Good for you! Keep it that way until long after you feel more sane. Might take years, might never happen, but you know yourself. Keep on keeping on!

[–] IchNichtenLichten@lemmy.world 2 points 11 months ago (1 children)

And if anyone wants to come in here screaming, “BAN all the things!”, just don’t.

vs

This is one of the most intractable problems in America, and I don’t have a clue what can be done about it.

The 2nd amendment needs to go on the dustbin of history. I'm not saying people can't own guns, but the right to should disappear.

"But that's not realistic", you might say. Sure, it's not going to happen any time soon but I think the US will get there eventually.

[–] shalafi@lemmy.world 5 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Maybe I agree, maybe I don't. Not 100% sure myself. But adding a constitutional amendment is unthinkable ATM. We couldn't pass an amendment making every 2nd Saturday of March "Chocolate Chip Cookie Day".

What I'm getting at is this: There is zero use talking about dumping the 2A, and neither your opinion nor mine will matter for decades to come. That discussion is off the table. And that's not fatalism, it's reality.

So again; Guns and suicide. Hell we do right now today?

All I got is health care, education, raising the poor from poverty, all the things conservatives won't let us have. Feeling so hopeless on this front, reaching out to anyone that has so much as a baby step.

[–] Crismus@lemmy.world 9 points 11 months ago (2 children)

99% of our gun issues are due to intractable poverty and inequality. 50 years ago we didn't have these issues because Corporations were not so overbalanced. There were perks to many jobs because taxes were very high on profits.

Fix the extreme poverty, housing, and take-home pay and most of these social issue will disappear. The rich and powerful ( Corpos and people) want people to give up rights because their problem is about control more than money.

Giving up rights won't change any suicides because there is no more hope in the US anymore.

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[–] BanditMcDougal@lemmy.world 2 points 11 months ago (3 children)

You're right, and you're going to get downvoted for it. We have an inequality problem masking as a gun problem. We have a mental health crisis masking as gun problem.

Possible solutions to these situations aren't fast and they don't stir up emotions enough to get people to vote for you. Riling people up and telling them you can fix their problems fast gets votes; saying we have work to do doesn't.

The stigma against mental healthcare won't be gone in my child's generation, but I am happy to see it is being accepted more than it was for mine. Of course, not thinking poorly of people for taking care of themselves doesn't matter if people can't afford to...

[–] assplode@kbin.social 3 points 11 months ago (2 children)

We have an inequality problem masking as a gun problem. We have a mental health crisis masking as gun problem.

Hard agree. People would not be killing themselves in droves if these issues weren't present.

We have a shitload of guns in this country. Nothing is going to change that.

While I think we do need more strict gun ownership laws, they're not going to change the amount already in people's hands. Nor will they make people less miserable.

What we need are tangible improvements in people's lives. Improved wages. Lower housing costs. Affordable healthcare. Quality, free treatment for addiction.

These are the things that will keep people from killing themselves.

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[–] ExfilBravo@lemmy.world 11 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Lift Your Head Up High (And Blow Your Brains Out).

[–] diybone@lemmy.world 6 points 11 months ago

You don't hear a good bloodhound gang reference often.

[–] schwim@reddthat.com 8 points 11 months ago

Well, it is an efficient manner.

[–] Pulptastic@midwest.social 7 points 11 months ago

Unprecedented... so far.

[–] Reverendender@sh.itjust.works 6 points 11 months ago

If only there were some way to predict these sorts of outcomes….

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