this post was submitted on 28 Nov 2023
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[–] AllonzeeLV@lemmy.world 63 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (14 children)

This is hard because yes dogs are awesome.

But so are cows, and pigs.

I'm no vegan, but It's interesting that the revulsion line for so many is dogs rather than fellow land mammals, land creatures, or something more distinct than a mammal you find particularly cute.

I'd argue the moral judgment here largely comes from people who just plain abstain from pointing that same moral judgment to sentient creatures they do eat. A cow or a pig is no less an individual than a dog.

As for me, I am eagerly awaiting lab grown meat becoming more available as an end to our species' barbarism. Usually all I hear back is disgust at the concept. Give it a chance, for the sake of all the creatures we breed to torture and kill. If we can grow animal protein that tastes the same, that's a win for everyone.

[–] gullible@kbin.social 33 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (5 children)

We bred dogs specifically to love people and to be expressive in an innately human way, so it feels wrong to kill them. Cows, pigs, chickens, sheep, etc. were bred for food. There’s less betrayal if the idea was always to eat them.

[–] Dudewitbow@lemmy.zip 13 points 11 months ago (3 children)

Cows are not bred only to supply meat, they supply labor to till fields and provide manure for crops. The dog breeds used for food in those regions are bred specifically for food, no different than current domesticated animals. Its the lack of that understanding and diminishing the work that other domesticated animals do that cause the problem. Hell there are plenty of studies that show pigs are smarter than dogs, we use them for organ transplants and stuff. You can legitamately argue pigs are more innately human than dogs are.

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[–] ElcaineVolta@kbin.social 7 points 11 months ago (1 children)

I really appreciate your usage of the word "betrayal" here, I think it's incredibly apt.
but do you think this makes any moral difference? or that it would matter at all to the being having their throat slashed or thrashing in a gas chamber?

[–] gullible@kbin.social 6 points 11 months ago

Not really, I’m vegetarian out of preference but I get where people come from. I’ve offered the truth of the matter, irrespective of my feelings on it.

[–] penguin@sh.itjust.works 5 points 11 months ago (2 children)

What does betrayal have to do with the morality of killing something?

It's either right or wrong to kill something if you don't have to for survival.

If you think killing dogs is wrong, then killing cows or pigs should also be wrong.

[–] 474D@lemmy.world 5 points 11 months ago (2 children)

I don't think it's unfair to say there's a spectrum to this. I'm not going to feel as bad with an ant dying compared to a dog

[–] jeffw@lemmy.world 1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Not sure that an ant is relevant to this discussion, since it’s not really similar to a cow, pig, dog, cat, etc.

[–] 474D@lemmy.world 1 points 11 months ago

Curious to where the line is drawn then? And who determines that?

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[–] gullible@kbin.social 1 points 11 months ago (4 children)

You’re talking about morality and I’m considering people’s feelings, however convoluted they might be. It’s not a moral issue, it’s marketing.

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[–] BruceTwarzen@kbin.social 2 points 11 months ago

Sorry you're not cute enough, now go into your dungeon, because i really like factory meat.

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[–] stolid_agnostic@lemmy.ml 5 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

I made a comment like that to my younger sister when I was just out of high school and you'd think that I had just burned the Bible in front of my father or something.

[–] AllonzeeLV@lemmy.world 3 points 11 months ago

As a rule, most Americans prefer the bliss of ignorance.

[–] commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

I’d argue the moral judgment here largely comes from people who just plain abstain from pointing that same moral judgment to sentient creatures they do eat. A cow or a pig is no less an individual than a dog.

so the issue isn't whether cows or dogs are individuals.

[–] AllonzeeLV@lemmy.world 2 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

This issue is about that, as people are upset about cruelty to dogs but just put blinders on for cows.

No person anyone would consider sane would advocate on behalf of saving watermelons, as they have no emotions like fear or sense of self-preservation. Most westerners know intimately that dogs do, but we choose not to dwell on the similar plight of cows, mostly because of the long standing tradition of eating cows. Tradition as always is an idiot thing.

So yeah, the issue here does revolve around these creatures being sentient individuals, and our erratic recognition of that among the species we choose to consume.

[–] commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 11 months ago

This issue is about that, as people are upset about cruelty to dogs but just put blinders on for cows.

the distinguishing characteristic isn't necessarily the individuality of each, and given that you're right that there is no appreciable difference in that regard, there must be some other factor at play.

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[–] Nollij@sopuli.xyz 25 points 11 months ago

While I support the goal of ending dog meat, I think this is approaching it from the wrong side. Don't attack the supply, attack the demand. All of these dog farmers make their living by selling their product to people who have chosen to buy dog meat. Many of them still want this, and will resort to black markets if it gets banned.

We're actually on a good path with it right now- they are only able to discuss a ban because it's fallen out of favor with people. In particular, the younger generations are turning away from it. A marketing campaign against dog meat will face much less resistance than a ban.

[–] Jaderick@lemmy.world 15 points 11 months ago (5 children)

I have no sympathy for these farmers or their livelihoods

[–] sexy_peach@feddit.de 27 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Yes but it's pretty much the same industry that farms millions of pigs and chickens here as well 😐

[–] Jaderick@lemmy.world 17 points 11 months ago (2 children)

My lack of sympathy extends to most industry farmers and ranchers in the West

[–] BruceTwarzen@kbin.social 1 points 11 months ago
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[–] Buffaloaf@lemmy.world 15 points 11 months ago (2 children)

That's their threat? If you don't let us butcher these dogs we'll let them go?

[–] Semi-Hemi-Demigod@kbin.social 13 points 11 months ago

As much as I don't want the dogs to be butchered, having two million stray dogs could cause problems.

[–] stolid_agnostic@lemmy.ml 4 points 11 months ago

Unsocialized dogs who now have to find food for the first time in their lives roaming the streets and countryside will cause havoc to everyone around them.

[–] guacupado@lemmy.world 15 points 11 months ago

Well I guess this answers my question of whether there were really that many people still eating dogs. Apparently it's not as rare as people made it to be.

[–] IvanOverdrive@lemm.ee 14 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

When I lived in Incheon, I got on the bus to Seoul in front of a dog meat breeding place whatever you call it. Those sounds of dog misery was a huge reason I left the country. Absolutely brutal and barbaric. Glad to know that's finally changing.

[–] stolid_agnostic@lemmy.ml 13 points 11 months ago

So...terrorism if economic demands are not met?

[–] sexy_peach@feddit.de 10 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

Damn this is some crazy reporting from countries that have gigantic pig factories. Dogs and pigs are so similar 😢

[–] deranger@lemmy.world 7 points 11 months ago

I don’t think the answer is an outright ban of dog meat; does this address cruelty against farm animals, or is it a feel good political move from the current ruling party? Korea loves pork, pigs are treated similarly, and I don’t see any calls for reform there.

I’ve never eaten dog meat but it’s not my place to judge. If the issue is inhumane conditions, then address those. The issue is not consumption of dog meat.

[–] praise_idleness@sh.itjust.works 6 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

I live in South Korea and I think it's safe to say that more than 90% of the population is at least not in favor of it. The only real demand is very old and few. It got harder and harder to find places that serve(disgusting) them, to the point where you can't really have them unless you really, really search for them.

This is not as controversial of a topic as you might think here. Some online trolls are actively in favor of them because of their fuck animal right activists mindset but other than them, most people find it disgusting to the point where public display of butchered dogs, which were very common like a decade ago, is pretty much gone at this point. I don't argue with any of the people who are saying well dogs are no different than pigs or cows. I can, but I don't. They will be banned at some point, possibly and hopefully pretty soon. It's to the point where arguing about it won't affect the course nor the speed of the change.

[–] Destraight@lemm.ee 6 points 11 months ago (1 children)
[–] Kusimulkku@lemm.ee 3 points 11 months ago

Do it. You won’t, bitches

FTFY

[–] Grass@sh.itjust.works 5 points 11 months ago (3 children)

What is the environmental effect of dog meat farming vs American farm animal meat?

[–] rosymind@leminal.space 4 points 11 months ago

I was going to say that I think it's worse since they are carnivorous, but then I remembered that dogs eat kibble as well as meat. Wikipedia says that they can consume starch. Some rando dog-food company claims that wheat isn't a filler, but adds vitamins and minerals. Idk about all that (not a dog owner) but I imagine that farmed dogs are probably fed the cheapest, most generic kibble available

So... ?

Interesting question, though. Personally just hoping for lab grown meat to become a thing

[–] jeffw@lemmy.world 2 points 11 months ago

I don’t know tbh. I do know that cattle is insanely bad and other meats are slightly less bad (it’s not very efficient to heavily deforest our planet for animal feed, like what’s been going on in the Amazon, for example)

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[–] radioactiveradio@lemm.ee 5 points 11 months ago

Yes release them! Make doggo heaven real.

[–] hiramfromthechi@lemmy.world 3 points 11 months ago

Freeing 2 million dogs? Don't threaten me with a good time..

[–] kemsat@lemmy.world 2 points 11 months ago (3 children)

Y’all are nuts, acting like dogs are somehow different from the rest of the animals.

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