this post was submitted on 25 Nov 2023
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65
‘Something doesn’t add up’: the small Queensland town united in its fight against speed camera fines (www.theguardian.com)
submitted 11 months ago by Zagorath@aussie.zone to c/australia@aussie.zone
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[–] Zagorath@aussie.zone 24 points 11 months ago (2 children)

a mobile speed camera temporarily installed on a rural road led to at least 589 fines being issued in a town of just 811 households.

Gods that data is appalling. Is it really likely that that rate speeding is really going on? Especially after the first few days once the locals are familiar with the placement of the camera and won't be caught unawares.

As she drove past, she said an electronic speed-monitoring sign on the side of the road lit up green with a smile, indicating it believed she was going under the limit of 60km/h.

Weeks later, she discovered the camera disagreed. That was one of nine fines issued to her car between 15 and 20 September. All of them arrived the same day.

The fact that the fines take weeks to show up and you can be driving the same stretch of road that entire time, getting a fine every single day, is appalling. All but one fine per person should be thrown out on that basis alone.

The fact that their Speed Awareness Monitor thinks they were doing the right speed is also particularly bad. It seems likely to be the best evidence that this camera was just miscalbibrated and all its fines should be scrapped. But even if the camera was calibrated correctly and it's the SAM that's wrong, the fact that the SAM told drivers they're going the right speed should be ground enough for aquital, in my opinion. They were given clearance and told they were doing the right thing.

It's like if a Council officer pilut on high vis and started controlling a signalised intersection, instructing drivers to ignore the traffic lights. It doesn't matter that that officer might not have the appropriate training or authorisation to be doing what he was doing. Drivers shouldn't be given a red light fine for going when someone who appeared authoritative said they should go.

[–] LemmysMum@lemmy.world 7 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Why is she trusting a speed detection sign in the first place, she had a speedometer that has a guaranteed margin of error in all cars older than 2004, and a legal requirement to never show above the actual travel speed. It sounds like a cop out, either the camera was not functioning properly or these people are just country lead foots. Given that I only need to go 15 mins out of the city to see people drive significantly over the limits with regularity. Wouldn't surprise me if half these folks have never even looked down below the dash what with keeping an eye out for pigs and roos.

[–] SoylentBlake@lemm.ee 3 points 11 months ago (2 children)

a guaranteed margin of error in all cars older than 2004

Is there no guarantee from 2005 on? Am I missing a memo here?

[–] Zagorath@aussie.zone 3 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

Very old cars were allowed a margin of error on both directions. Newer cars are allowed zero margin for error on reading low but some margin for reading high (i.e., you are guaranteed to actually be going at the speed recorded or lower—you can never be speeding if your speedo says you're under the limit).

[–] LemmysMum@lemmy.world 3 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

I misstyped. It's supposed to be younger not older. Older cars are still required to show the correct speed however in 2004 manufacturers started putting in a 'buffer'.

Cars manufactured before 2004 will generally have a very exact speedo that has the potential to be over the travelling speed under certain circumstances, eg bigger wheels than intented for the vehicle, overinflated tires, etc.

After 2004 manufacturer's started putting in a 'buffer' of anywhere between 4 to 12 km/h due to new regulation preventing the previously mentioned situation.

For example a Taraga people mover can be anywhere from 7 to 12km under the displayed speed, Camry hybrids are almost always about 4km/h slower than their shown speed, Prius are mostly 5km/h slower on the dot.

My 2002 Camry is on the money.

Experience: Few years as a taxi driver.

[–] abhibeckert@beehaw.org 1 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (2 children)

Gods that data is appalling. Is it really likely that that rate speeding is really going on? Especially after the first few days once the locals are familiar with the placement of the camera and won’t be caught unawares.

Despite the example you gave - almost none of those fines would have been locals.

It's a major interstate route and people travelling through the town are the ones that get fined - in other parts of the state the speed limit for that road would be far higher (probably 110kph with a bypass for the town) and wouldn't be enforced as heavily either.

[–] Zagorath@aussie.zone 4 points 11 months ago

Despite the example you gave - almost none of those fines would have been locals.

I thought about that, but the fact is that the way the article presents it gives us no reason to believe that's the case.

[–] princessnorah@lemmy.blahaj.zone 3 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

It’s a major interstate route…

If it were a major interstate route, it would have a name, instead of being called Small Town-Smaller Town Rd (Atherton-Malanda Rd). It also wouldn’t be 250km north of the last major route to the NT (Flinders Hwy) or 20km west of the road to Cairns (Bruce Hwy). Your claim is completely untrue.

[–] abhibeckert@beehaw.org 1 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

If it were a major interstate route, it would have a name

It's effectively part of Highway 1 - which goes around the coast through every coastal city on mainland Australia.

It's not officially part of it, but west of Cairns a bridge has been closed to a lot of traffic for three years. Most people don't expect the bridge to be repaired, more likely they'll move the highway... but preliminary investigations have been suppressed (not a good sign) and nearly $10m is being spent just on planning to decide what to do - the results of that planning effort are scheduled to be released by the end of next year - who knows when construction will start. In the mean time, Atherton-Malanda Rd is one of the detour options, depending where you're going along Highway 1.

It's also a major tourist road - about half a million tourists per year drive along it.

You're right, it's not a major highway. But it is and always has been used for heavy freight and more than ever since the bridge is a mess. It was originally built well over a hundred years ago to haul massive old growth rainforest tree trunks to be shipped off to Europe - I'm talking trees where a single log would need an oversize truck to move it by modern standards. These days the road is depended on by local farmers and it's almost a blessing that it's not a federal highway, because being a local road means it's actually considered a priority by the government that maintains it.

[–] trk@aussie.zone 8 points 11 months ago (1 children)

We did a US trip recently, and in 5000k of driving on their major roads and highways through half a dozen states, we saw a total of 3 speed detection devices - all hand held by cops in patrol cars.

We get back to Brisbane and passed 2 speed cameras on the 30 minute trip home from the airport.

[–] WaxedWookie@lemmy.world 4 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (2 children)

If we were motivated to... undermine the profitability of these ~~privately operated~~ state revenue raisers, how closely are they surveilled?

[–] rainynight65@feddit.de 3 points 11 months ago (1 children)

The entities mentioned in this article are TMR and QPS, and neither of them are privately operated.

[–] WaxedWookie@lemmy.world 1 points 11 months ago

Fair enough - my mistake.

[–] Zagorath@aussie.zone 2 points 11 months ago

Are they privately operated? I was under the impression QPS operated them.

[–] rainynight65@feddit.de 4 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Knuth said his constituents are “ropeable” about two issues: juvenile crime and speeding fines.

I get that the Katters have youth crime as one of the biggest topics they run on (I also suspect they don't have any sustainable plans to address it). But how much youth crime can there possibly be in a podunk town of 811 people? Don't conflate two distinct topics to score political points.

[–] abhibeckert@beehaw.org 5 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

As someone who grew up in Malanda... not much crime there as far as I know. Everyone in the town is on a first name basis and friendly.

But other towns only slightly larger in the same area are out of control. I'm talking nuisance crimes - such as a kid smashing in the windscreen of your car with a baseball bat or spray painting a penis on your shop sign or straight up burning a business building to the ground for no reason other than they think it's funny.

If it was once in a blue moon... ok. That's what insurance is for. But when you're personally a victim of stuff like that several times a year and so is everyone else you know... it's borderline unliveable. The police force are so under-funded most of these crimes don't even get reported. They show up four days later and take a few notes, and that's it.

As for what Knuth is doing about it... not much he can do other than complain. Police are run from Brisbane and it's clear they don't think it's a priority. Shit's been getting worse every year for as long as I've lived here. Supposedly they need 150 additional officers for the district and recently hired four. They don't report how many retired or quit in frustration (I suspect more than four).

Last time I had a chat with my local officer, he said he's in hot water because an independent audit reported people speeding regularly on a stretch of highway but where he'd never issued any speeding fines. Its a down hill where you need to be riding the brakes to stay within the speed limit and was recently reduced from 100km/h to 60km/h for no reason — the road is safer than it ever has been, due to upgrades, and there was never a crash even before the safety improvements.

[–] rainynight65@feddit.de 3 points 11 months ago (1 children)

I have zero doubt that youth crime is a problem in many places, and I am certain that a lot of speed enforcement is purely revenue-generating. I simply bristle at reductive statements from politicians like Knuth who only have complaints and no plans. Both of these issues are non-trivial to address, but nobody wants to hear about complexities, because that means change will take time. They just want things to change now, and that's not happening.

[–] abhibeckert@beehaw.org 2 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

They just want things to change now, and that’s not happening.

Yeah see that's exactly what gets everyone worked up. On one hand Youth detention centres are so overcrowded and understaffed the kids have to be locked in their cells 23 hours a day - a horrific breach of human rights if it was done to an adult, let alone kids. And on the other hand some of the crimes the kids are committing are even more horrific than that (seriously, I don't even want to write about some of the stories I've been close to).

The people in those towns want the state premier (not just a single politician from a minor party) to drop whatever they're doing and deal with this. Now. Right now. It's hard for us to imagine anything else more important that could possibly be on the premier's desk than this issue. But instead we get told "the problem is complex". We know it's complex. We're living it.

[–] rainynight65@feddit.de 1 points 11 months ago

So what do you imagine the state premier and government can do to address the problem right now, that will bring meaningful change in a short time?

[–] autotldr@lemmings.world 3 points 11 months ago

This is the best summary I could come up with:

Dozens of Malanda residents say they’re preparing individual legal challenges after a mobile speed camera temporarily installed on a rural road led to at least 589 fines being issued in a town of just 811 households.

Their case has generated a wider debate about the calibration and placement of trailer-based speed cameras in rural Queensland, and length of time between an alleged offence occurring and when a fine is issued.

Trainee ambulance driver Lana Miller saw the Malanda camera for the first time heading down the hill on a bend of the winding Malanda–Atherton road, about 75 kilometres south-west of Cairns, on 15 September.

Bonadio spoke to one elderly resident who regularly drives to the aged care home to visit his wife and was caught five times turning into its driveway.

In response to questions about field testing of the device, the department spokesperson said “several validations and checks are undertaken prior to infringements being issued from TRSCs (transportable road safety cameras).”

Several rural MPs, including Katter’s Australian Party’s Knuth, have brought the issue to state parliament, warning that car-dependent regional motorists are fed up with automated speeding fines.

The original article contains 1,412 words, the summary contains 189 words. Saved 87%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!

[–] sudoku@programming.dev 0 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Was the camera malfunctioning? Scrap all the tickets. Was it working properly? Pay up and stop crying.

[–] Thisfox@sopuli.xyz 0 points 11 months ago

There are a lot of people who think they can go whatever speed they like and no one matters but them. This one seems to have been deceptive, but only to people who refuse to look at their own speedo, installed in their car for exactly this purpose.