this post was submitted on 17 Nov 2023
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Signal’s president reveals the cost of running the privacy-preserving platform—not just to drum up donations, but to call out the for-profit surveillance business models it competes against.

The encrypted messaging and calling app Signal has become a one-of-a-kind phenomenon in the tech world: It has grown from the preferred encrypted messenger for the paranoid privacy elite into a legitimately mainstream service with hundreds of millions of installs worldwide. And it has done this entirely as a nonprofit effort, with no venture capital or monetization model, all while holding its own against the best-funded Silicon Valley competitors in the world, like WhatsApp, Facebook Messenger, Gmail, and iMessage.

Today, Signal is revealing something about what it takes to pull that off—and it’s not cheap. For the first time, the Signal Foundation that runs the app has published a full breakdown of Signal’s operating costs: around $40 million this year, projected to hit $50 million by 2025.

Signal’s president, Meredith Whittaker, says her decision to publish the detailed cost numbers in a blog post for the first time—going well beyond the IRS disclosures legally required of nonprofits—was more than just as a frank appeal for year-end donations. By revealing the price of operating a modern communications service, she says, she wanted to call attention to how competitors pay these same expenses: either by profiting directly from monetizing users’ data or, she argues, by locking users into networks that very often operate with that same corporate surveillance business model.

“By being honest about these costs ourselves, we believe that helps provide a view of the engine of the tech industry, the surveillance business model, that is not always apparent to people,” Whittaker tells WIRED. Running a service like Signal—or WhatsApp or Gmail or Telegram—is, she says, “surprisingly expensive. You may not know that, and there’s a good reason you don’t know that, and it’s because it’s not something that companies who pay those expenses via surveillance want you to know.”

Signal pays $14 million a year in infrastructure costs, for instance, including the price of servers, bandwidth, and storage. It uses about 20 petabytes per year of bandwidth, or 20 million gigabytes, to enable voice and video calling alone, which comes to $1.7 million a year. The biggest chunk of those infrastructure costs, fully $6 million annually, goes to telecom firms to pay for the SMS text messages Signal uses to send registration codes to verify new Signal accounts’ phone numbers. That cost has gone up, Signal says, as telecom firms charge more for those text messages in an effort to offset the shrinking use of SMS in favor of cheaper services like Signal and WhatsApp worldwide.

Another $19 million a year or so out of Signal’s budget pays for its staff. Signal now employs about 50 people, a far larger team than a few years ago. In 2016, Signal had just three full-time employees working in a single room in a coworking space in San Francisco. “People didn’t take vacations,” Whittaker says. “People didn’t get on planes because they didn’t want to be offline if there was an outage or something.” While that skeleton-crew era is over—Whittaker says it wasn’t sustainable for those few overworked staffers—she argues that a team of 50 people is still a tiny number compared to services with similar-sized user bases, which often have thousands of employees.

read more: https://www.wired.com/story/signal-operating-costs/

archive link: https://archive.ph/O5rzD

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[–] pmarcilus@discuss.tchncs.de 190 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I'm glad that Signal choose to be transparent about its spending instead of hiding it from obscurity.

[–] onlinepersona@programming.dev 23 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Hiding from obscurity? 🤔

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[–] Chobbes@lemmy.world 148 points 1 year ago (3 children)

There’s something kind of funny about one of the largest expenses being SMS and voice calls to verify phone numbers when one of the largest complaints about signal is the phone number requirement. I wonder how much this cost factors into them considering dropping the phone number requirement.

[–] topinambour_rex@lemmy.world 95 points 1 year ago (58 children)

If they drop the phone number requirements, you will get spam, a lot of spam. Much more than now.

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[–] Poutinetown@lemmy.ca 20 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Phone numbers will still be required to sign up, you only won't need it to add a contact.

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[–] sndrtj@feddit.nl 19 points 1 year ago (5 children)

Interestingly this phone number complaint only shows up among techies and especially Americans. You guys don't get to keep your phone number? I've had the same number now for 20 years here in Europe, it may as well be synonymous with my identity.

In fact, I'd say the phone number requirement, or at least option, actually promotes adoption in parts of the world. I wouldn't have been able to get my mother to use Signal if it didn't work with a phone number, for instance. She's not gonna make an account just for a chat app. Phone number she already has.

[–] devfuuu@lemmy.world 30 points 1 year ago

Exactly because I have the same phone number for almost 30 years, that is the problem. It's too deep interlaced with my real and personal identity and I regard it as a very private thing that only few people should have.

I don't get the idea that a phone number should just be randomly given as if it was natural.

It's good to have it as an option for example so my mother can use it simply and quickly, but when I go to a conference and want to connect to new people which are still strangers and will and don't give my phone number. So in those situations I have to randomly use other chat system or share emails? When signal already is in my pocket and my main chat application 99% of the time and is perfect for 1 to 1 friendly chats?

[–] shortwavesurfer@monero.town 15 points 1 year ago

It's actually a privacy issue because your phone number is tied to your physical identity so deeply that giving it out is giving too much away.

[–] neonred@lemmy.world 14 points 1 year ago (1 children)

because people might feel uncomfortable sending unnecessary personal information to another party, especially if it does not change often, like the telephone number?

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[–] interceder270@lemmy.world 84 points 1 year ago (2 children)

No joke, I'd be way more willing to pay for stuff if business were open about their expenses.

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[–] RealM@kbin.social 62 points 1 year ago

You know what, that's fair.

I saw a lot of discussion in the comments about their workers pay, but honestly, they make a great product. Wouldn't wanna be counting pennies in someone elses pockets. I donated a one time 25 bucks, I hope they will continue to ask for donations whenever they are in dire need of server running money.

[–] LemmyIsFantastic@lemmy.world 58 points 1 year ago (4 children)

This shit costs money.

And now folks predictably are bitching about ceo comp. 400k is shit for a competent CTO. I make nearly as much for a lowleey director for a small federal contractor. Welcome to tech pay.

[–] EnderMB@lemmy.world 40 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Tech pay in the US.

Not wholly relevant to the above story, but worth calling out regardless.

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[–] LSNLDN@slrpnk.net 16 points 1 year ago (1 children)

But 19 million in costs for 50 staff would put everyone at roughly that wage right? Or what have I missed here

[–] Jako301@feddit.de 24 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (6 children)

You've got tax, insurance, retirement plans, trainings...

The average wage will be around 200k. Still a lot for the average person, but not much for an experienced programmer/ sysadmin.

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[–] xenoclast@lemmy.world 53 points 1 year ago (7 children)

Of all the services asking me for a monthly fee. $5 for a non-profit private communication tool is a no brainer.

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[–] suckmyspez@lemmy.world 48 points 1 year ago (6 children)

I find it amusing they don’t accept donations via their own cryptocurrency 🫠

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[–] Blackmist@feddit.uk 37 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Just over a dollar a user doesn't sound that bad.

I suspect if they run short of money to run it, they'd add some Discord style features. Better quality voice and video sounds like an easy one to get users of it to pony up for.

Although again, I'd prefer a federated alternative. We shouldn't be hanging large portions of infrastructure on a handful of companies that at any point can pull the rug.

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[–] Fallstar@mander.xyz 36 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Does put into perspective how much it costs to run at this level and how their competitors are paying costs of similar magnitudes

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[–] phoneymouse@lemmy.world 26 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (6 children)

WhatsApp’s initial monetization model was pretty good. Free for the first year, $1/year after that. With 400 million users, that’s a lot of money.

Signal has 50 million, but could cover their costs for $5/year per user, I’m sure, assuming not all users would pay.

[–] lemmyvore@feddit.nl 22 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

If the dollar fee of Whatsapp teaches us anything is that any tax you put on your app hinders adoption.

Whatsapp intended to do that but ended up scrapping the tax for various reasons. One of them was to keep the existing user base (they have existing customers lifetime use for free when they brought out the $1 idea). Another was the fact that in some populous regions of the world credit cards weren't common (like India) and they'd rather have lots of users there.

Bottom line, the $1 Whatsapp is even more elusive than the WinRar license and I've never personally heard of anybody who ever paid it.

https://venturebeat.com/mobile/whatsapp-subscription/

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[–] uis@lemmy.world 26 points 1 year ago (22 children)

40% of costs is salary? That's so little for software company.

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[–] Netrunner@programming.dev 17 points 1 year ago (5 children)

We need a lemmy version of signal

[–] steltek@lemm.ee 55 points 1 year ago

That's Matrix. End to end encrypted, decentralized, and open source.

Bridging opens it up to other services as well, like how Pidgin/Adium/Gaim used to work.

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[–] kalistia@sh.itjust.works 17 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

My non-pro question is : if it was a peer-to-peer service like element, using a decentralized protocol like matrix, wouldn't it be a huge cost saver because of less data bandwidth and server costs?

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[–] Agent641@lemmy.world 16 points 1 year ago

Im not sure I can afford that

[–] fosforus@sopuli.xyz 15 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (5 children)

Their leadership team made about 5 million dollars per year in 2022, with about $500K/year compensations for most of them. Some comments here suggest that those compensations have risen sharply recently.

Perhaps consider whether this is a good place to donate. And also, it's so shitty that we were conditioned to think that every service is "free" of charge. In an ideal world, Signal could fix all of these problems by firing 80% of their C-team and instituting a modest subscription fee. But then 90% of their users would just fuck off to some place that is "free" but makes much more money from selling their data.

[–] Gutless2615@ttrpg.network 41 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Their leadership team is not overpaid relative to the industry and they are highly deserved of those salaries. They make an excellent product. The point isn’t that the leadership team makes 5mil between them, a drop in the bucket of the 50mil total operating cost. It’s hard to read your comment as anything but disingenuous.

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[–] Serinus@lemmy.world 23 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Jim O'leary (Vp, Engineering) $666,909 $0 $33,343
Ehren Kret (Chief Technology Officer) $665,909 $0 $8,557
Aruna Harder (Chief Operating Officer) $444,606 $0 $20,500
Graeme Connell (Software Developer) $444,606 $0 $35,208
Greyson Parrelli (Software Developer) $422,972 $0 $35,668
Jonathan Chambers (Software Developer) $420,595 $0 $28,346
Meredith Whittaker (Director / Pres Of Signal Messenger) $191,229 $0 $6,032

[–] MystikIncarnate@lemmy.ca 26 points 1 year ago (4 children)

I don't know why developers are making more than the president of the company here, but that's nice to see.

Usually the person setting the wages is setting their own wage higher than the rest.

It's also wild to me that some developers are making nearly half a million a year. I can't even crack 100k in my local currency (about $75k/yr USD) and my job is to run the infrastructure. If I don't do my job, the company goes offline and all that fancy programming amounts for nothing.

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[–] GBU_28@lemm.ee 14 points 1 year ago

Sounds completely fine.

Remember we need competent, motivated folks top to bottom. They are certainly getting offers from other organizations to go work for them.

We also don't want them "needing" to accept bribes

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