this post was submitted on 08 Nov 2023
101 points (74.9% liked)

Technology

60424 readers
3609 users here now

This is a most excellent place for technology news and articles.


Our Rules


  1. Follow the lemmy.world rules.
  2. Only tech related content.
  3. Be excellent to each another!
  4. Mod approved content bots can post up to 10 articles per day.
  5. Threads asking for personal tech support may be deleted.
  6. Politics threads may be removed.
  7. No memes allowed as posts, OK to post as comments.
  8. Only approved bots from the list below, to ask if your bot can be added please contact us.
  9. Check for duplicates before posting, duplicates may be removed

Approved Bots


founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
 

Google could kill YouTube Vanced for good::The company is exploring an integrity API that could lock down WebViews with DRM

top 50 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] GissaMittJobb@lemmy.ml 182 points 1 year ago (4 children)

Wow, this article is just like 100% wrong. I'm surprised no one has mentioned this yet.

To get why this could be a problem for YouTube Vanced’s successors, we need to understand how they work. Rather than modding the YouTube app itself, Vanced apps are essentially tweaked and modded browsers that display videos via a WebView that shows YouTube, adding extra features to the experience like adblock and other YouTube Premium perks. If YouTube was able to check which apps or devices are trying to access its servers before displaying content, this would be an easy route to stop Vanced successors from working.

The YouTube-app, and Revanced in turn, does not utilize a WebView to display video. They are most certainly not 'modded browsers'.

Seriously, who wrote this shit? An AI? It's baffling.

[–] rdri@lemmy.world 56 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

ABOUT THE AUTHOR

Manuel Vonau • Senior Google Editor

(2251 Articles Published)

[–] ElPussyKangaroo@lemmy.world 39 points 1 year ago

Given that Revanced patches the YouTube app, Monsieur Vonau is most certainly wrong.

[–] FrostKing@lemmy.world 17 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I'm surprised no one had mentioned this yet

It's because there's an annoying trend of everyone reading the headline and not the article. Drives me bonkers

[–] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 15 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Headline: "THING IS HAPPENING"

Body: "Here's 1000 words unrelated to the headline. Here's some ads. Here's interviews with three people saying nothing of interest. Here's the thing you clicked under the headline for and it adds a bit of nuance to the headline along with a bunch of waffling and uncertainty. Here's a pointless anecdote. More ads! Here's a recipe for chicken wings and a bunch of pictures of celebrities. Oops! Article ended a full screen ago. Nothing down here but clickbait and more ads."

Gee, I wonder why people just take the headline at face value.

[–] Asafum@feddit.nl 10 points 1 year ago

The recipe thing... OMG lol...

Peanut butter and jelly recipe:

My family had a farm and my mother loved to run around with the chickens. We would play kick the neighbors dog all summer while the crows chased my father around. Donkey season can be a wonderful time when the leaves just start to turn and the beavers come home for winter. Three times in my life have I encountered such joy, one was when I had my first hit-and-run, the second was when I learned how to make napalm, and finally the last joy was in writing such absolute nonsense that just wont ever end when all you wanted was a goodamn simple fucking list of ingredients and maybe a temperature to cook at. Well the seasons change and I still waffle on, maybe one day you'll get your recipe, but you won't find it here. Or will you? Turn to page 36 for recipe, turn to page 4 to continue down this path into madness with me.

Recipe: Peanut butter. Jelly. Bread.

[–] altima_neo@lemmy.zip 2 points 1 year ago

So many articles these days add nothing to the headline. They literally repeat the same paragraph, slightly reworded. It's getting so bad that the first paragraph is usually made up of the same few sentences, repeated.

[–] papertowels@lemmy.one 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

How does it work under the hood? I remember googling around and never found out

[–] GissaMittJobb@lemmy.ml 5 points 1 year ago

To play video, the YouTube app does API calls directly to the YouTube API instead of loading any web code, then gets a reference to the media to play back and plays it back in a native media playback SDK.

Revanced does their stuff the way they do by manipulating the bytecode that the YouTube app consists of, to add/remove things.

[–] bstix@feddit.dk 131 points 1 year ago (2 children)

It's a waste of time. People who bother installing Vanced are not likely to click a single god damn ad even if it's forced on them.

So yes, Google can choose to bother some people and get higher statistics on ad views, but the companies paying for the ad will not see one single fucking sale more. This lowers the value of the ad.

They're chasing imaginary revenue.

The value of exposure isn't real either. The phone might play it but I don't fucking watch something that I don't want to watch. I've been online since before online ads were a thing and not once have I bought anything from any online ads.

Just let me opt out of that circus for fuck sake.

Not all ads are cost per click, many are priced by impression, and that traffic to Vance’s costs money.

So they would make more money blocking Vance, but the impressions from Vance’s users are likely the seething “I’ll never buy from you for making me watch this ad” type.

[–] phillaholic@lemm.ee 16 points 1 year ago (4 children)

If you aren’t paying them for Premium, or viewing their ads, you’re literally costing them money. They’d rather stop you from even consuming the bandwidth.

[–] Player2@sopuli.xyz 33 points 1 year ago (4 children)

On the other hand, they are spending real money on development time to fight against an army of independents doing it for fun or personal satisfaction. That's throwing money into a hole they can never fill up

[–] QuarterSwede@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago

Yeah, as someone in ops in another industry I would just chaulk this up to the cost of doing business, cut my losses, and move on. I can’t imagine most people are using ad blockers.

load more comments (3 replies)
[–] bstix@feddit.dk 15 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Well, that part is working really well. I've been using YouTube less and less every time they've worsened the free service. I don't even bother with the revanced loopholes, I'll just don't use YouTube to find stuff. Most of the content is made for monetisation purposes anyway.

I'm not saying they shouldn't do it, or that I don't understand why. It's just a prime example of the internet going to shit.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] bitwaba@lemmy.world 11 points 1 year ago (1 children)

If you give thumbs ups and add comments, you're still providing user generated content that increases the value of the content you watched, so they're still getting something out of it. Your contributions could go on to drive someone else to watch the video which could end up seeing the ad you blocked.

It's a question of what that value is that you've provided to the service. It's the same question Reddit will be finding out the answers to over the next couple months.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] CmdrShepard@lemmy.one 3 points 1 year ago (4 children)

Does it really cost them? If we take it to the extreme and say everyone collectively decided to stop costing them money by watching their content for free, what would that do to the value of their platform?

load more comments (4 replies)
[–] not_that_guy05@lemmy.world 65 points 1 year ago (3 children)

No matter what, people will always find a way to mod the apps they really want to have free.

[–] Corngood@lemmy.ml 23 points 1 year ago (1 children)

There's definitely a danger if attestation becomes widespread enough that they can require it.

Not a danger of being unable to mod the apps, but they will be able to restrict access to their servers to the official unmodified app, when it's running on specific trusted operating systems.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] AnarchoDakosaurus@toast.ooo 19 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Yup. I remeber the girls at school listening to bootlegged YouTube videos from shitty rip off apps from the appstore lol. Before revanced, there was vanced, after revanced, a new Phoenix will emerge. The people will it.

[–] Butterpaderp@lemmy.world 15 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Electric boogaloo

[–] redcalcium@lemmy.institute 5 points 1 year ago

Reeeeeeeeeeevanced

[–] key@lemmy.keychat.org 9 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I remeber the girls at school listening to bootlegged YouTube videos from shitty rip off apps from the appstore

That could have been yesterday or like 15 years ago

[–] AnarchoDakosaurus@toast.ooo 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Haha fair enough. For what its worth they had iPhone 4's and Ipod touches. It was close to a decade ago then it was to yesterday.

[–] soggy_kitty@sopuli.xyz 2 points 1 year ago

Imagine going to school when people had access to smart phones. Fuck I feel sorry for you younglings

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] db2@sopuli.xyz 26 points 1 year ago (1 children)

This is just the mini version of what they tried to do in Chrome. Since you don't have to use the built in webview it's meaningless.

[–] deweydecibel@lemmy.world 9 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Apps can easily be redesigned with some kind of webview integration, and some apps already do have random things that bring up webview, and thia would kill them on a rooted device.

The inherent issue here is they're arguing this will help prevent fraud, but they're not looking for fraud. They're looking for an altered device and assuming fraud.

[–] db2@sopuli.xyz 12 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I nuked a food app recently because instead of opening so I could give them money in exchange for food they decided to police my phone for PCAPdroid by way of refusing to run beyond showing a message stating that I can't have PCAPdroid installed and closing after a 5 second timeout.

Fuck you, Papa Murphy's. What's your app doing that you're afraid I'll be able to see? You're blacklisted for life now.

[–] Rai@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Why would someone download a fast food app in the first place, I’d pay to NOT have that on my phone lawl

load more comments (2 replies)
[–] db2@sopuli.xyz 3 points 1 year ago

What I meant though was you aren't necessarily stuck using Google's webview, though they make it non-trivial to jailbreak from theirs.

https://github.com/bromite/bromite/wiki/Installing-SystemWebView

[–] Caligvla@lemmy.dbzer0.com 14 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Of course they would, the bastards. I'm assuming that would also affect newpipe and freetube too?

[–] takeda@lemmy.world 14 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

At first I thought so too, but I believe those might still work as long as the attestation feature doesn't end up in browsers. Those applications likely can still pretend to be web user.

ReVanced is special because it patches original YouTube. So if the original YouTube would start doing this kind of verification, after being patched it would stop working. To fix it the whole playback code would have to be replaced, but at that point why not use NewPipe or GrayJay.

BTW: Google is doing that because it has monopoly in that market. They similarly have monoly with browser market. Still after uproar they backed off. We really should try to break it and apps that support multiple platforms (like mentioned NewPipe and GrayJay are probably the best way to dethrone them)

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] HouseWolf@lemm.ee 11 points 1 year ago

I'm making good use of yt-dlp while I still can

[–] AlmightySnoo@lemmy.world 9 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Can someone confirm whether YouTube ReVanced really uses WebView?

[–] db2@sopuli.xyz 22 points 1 year ago (1 children)

It's the official app apk with some mods. So probably not.

[–] AlmightySnoo@lemmy.world 13 points 1 year ago (1 children)

In that case the premise of the entire article is wrong then.

[–] deweydecibel@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago

Google can redesign the official app and kill functionality to the previous version.

[–] Corngood@lemmy.ml 9 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Surely as long as there's a way to access YouTube on devices without attestation, this won't kill anything.

[–] alvvayson@lemmy.world 11 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Indeed. And if they decide to brick or degrade all legacy apps, people will just transcode and torrent.

Information wants to be free, and millions of people have the skills to make it happen.

load more comments (3 replies)
[–] NumerousGeorg@sopuli.xyz 5 points 1 year ago

I don't understand why YouTube doesn't use the stupid blob video format (I don't know the technical details, maybe it's about drm protection) already. It almost makes it impossible to view a video in something other than the player it came with and I don't like that.

[–] onlinepersona@programming.dev 2 points 1 year ago

Android WebView Media Integrity API

Is the WebView based on Chromium? If they add this WebView, how far off would it be from being added to Chromium?

load more comments
view more: next ›