this post was submitted on 07 Apr 2022
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GenZedong

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World hunger and the war in Ukraine - Workers Today (workers.today)
submitted 2 years ago by OriginalVivid@lemmygrad.ml to c/genzedong@lemmygrad.ml
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[–] Shrike502@lemmygrad.ml 0 points 2 years ago (1 children)

There's something I don't understand and hope the fine people of GZD could help me understand:

That whole chunk of what is annoyingly called "middle East" used to be what is called the "green crescent". The area with excellent agriculture, dating back millenia. However, this and some other articles I've seen say Egypt is a massive importer of wheat. How come? Did the climate change so much since the days of the Pharaohs that the Nile valley can no longer support a population? Did the population simply grow beyond the river's ability to feed it? Did wars and colonial conquests destroy too much?

What happened?

[–] xxcvzvcxx@lemmygrad.ml 0 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

According to this article:

Egypt produces half of the 20 million tons of wheat that it consumes with irrigation and imports the other half.

Basically, Egypt's population has ballooned so much that the advances in farming technology has not been able to keep up with the food demand.

For reference, Egypt produces 9 million tons of wheat per year with a population of 102.3 million, while Ukraine produces 33 million tons with a population of 44.13 million.

For Egypt, the areas that can be used to produce wheat are the areas close to the Nile only, while Ukraine is full of rivers pretty much everywhere so almost the entirety of its land can be used to farm wheat.

Egypt during bronze age had pretty advanced farming technology for its time which allowed it to surpass other countries. Now that Ukraine is using the same tech Egypt is using, the difference is the amount of land that can sustain farming, which Ukraine has a lot more of.

[–] PolandIsAStateOfMind@lemmygrad.ml -1 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

Yes, basically this. Nothing out of ordinary happened, you can't increase food production indefinitely with the same amount of land.

Also worth noting is that the "Egypt agriculture degenerated" is a racist take, because after it there is inevitably either clear or unspoken blaming Arabs for this "degeneration". Sometimes as cherry on top you can also find white pharaohs myth nearby.

[–] xxcvzvcxx@lemmygrad.ml 0 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Also worth noting is that the “Egypt agriculture degenerated” is a racist take

I'm confused, did you mean to insinuate that I made this claim? I just said Egyptian technology was very advanced during bronze age. I didn't say it "degenerated".

[–] PolandIsAStateOfMind@lemmygrad.ml -1 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

No, you didn't, but "what happened to Egypt agriculture" is very often asked just before the main dish. So it's good you don't intend to go further than that.

[–] xxcvzvcxx@lemmygrad.ml 0 points 2 years ago (1 children)

ah I see what you mean.

[–] PolandIsAStateOfMind@lemmygrad.ml -1 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Also i now confused you with the guy who asked the question, i meant my answer as addendum to yours which i agree with.

[–] Shrike502@lemmygrad.ml 0 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Well I "insinuated that Egypt's agriculture degenerated" due to remembering Egypt getting invaded by colonial forces several times. Plus AFAIK they had quite a turmoil during the "Arab Spring" wave a few years back. Surely such events don't help local economy?

[–] PolandIsAStateOfMind@lemmygrad.ml -1 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

They do, but as if people peddling those myths care about something as insignificant as few years of time for rebuilding. Or few decades. Of few millenia in some cases. In the face of occasion to smear some Arabs? They mean it PERMANENTLY degenerated because Arabs.

[–] Shrike502@lemmygrad.ml 0 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Just wanted to point that it was not my intention when asking the original question. Otherwise I understand you

[–] PolandIsAStateOfMind@lemmygrad.ml -1 points 2 years ago

No problem, the question was legit, since that bit about Egypt is very often said by western media.