this post was submitted on 06 Oct 2023
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101
Should Australian cities adopt car-free days? - ABC listen (www.abc.net.au)
submitted 1 year ago by Zagorath@aussie.zone to c/australia@aussie.zone
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[–] fiat_lux@kbin.social 14 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

If you mean shutting down entire suburbs, definitely not in the foreseeable future. For the same reasons the ABC keeps breaking the law requiring them to provide transcripts and/or captions for media published online. They have forgotten, or worse, they are ignoring people with disabilities exist and should be part of the conversation.

I have zero objection to single streets being shut down to have community festivals/events, but in a world where many many people struggle with mobility, there needs to be some form of semi-direct access.

Or we at least need lots more public seating of differing types/heights, public toilets that aren't fucking rented port-a-loos, group tables that have space for wheelchairs, locking stations for mobility equipment that aren't just for pushbikes and that aren't placed haphazardly in the way of foot traffic on the skinny broken footpath, etc. You know, infrastructure and shit.

Also, be better, ABC. Cheap automated transcription tools exist, and it doesn't take many people to check for accuracy and add it to the media player and page. You're literally legally obligated to do this. There are even businesses you can hire to do that with turnarounds in under an hour. For fuck's sake, the royal commission report just came out about this sort of shit.

[–] Thisfox@sopuli.xyz 11 points 1 year ago

The idea was to shut down specific streets for single days, such as Kinn Street in Newtown. Which, during some shopping times, is basically an engines-running carpark anyhow, so sweeping the cars out would be a good thing. It is not to have a whole car-free suburb, just close a street to motor traffic on a particular day and so on.

[–] Zagorath@aussie.zone 7 points 1 year ago (2 children)

From the programme, it sounds like they mean shutting down most of the CBD to non-essential travel on a regular periodic basis. Like once a week or once a month or something. So deliveries and such would probably still happen, and obviously so would emergency vehicles, but the average person wouldn't be allowed to drive in.

in a world where many many people struggle with mobility, there needs to be some form of semi-direct access

The thing is, a car-dependent world makes this worse for people, not better. It makes it hard to get places if you can't drive, whether that's because of a disability, an inability to afford the high prices, or because you've been excluded from driving, or, as a close family friend is currently going through, simply because of age and the physical & mental effects of aging.

Aside from the periodic changes, one of the best things we could do would be to permanently turn our CBDs into pedestrianised zones. Places where drivers are entirely allowed to go if they want, but where they have to expect to be driving very slowly because pedestrians get complete right of way. Here in Brisbane we already have this in a few places, like along Albert St between Adelaide St and Burnett Ln. As well as Burnett Ln itself. Extending that to almost the entire CBD (minus one or two key roads used by public transport—such as Brisbane's Adelaide St) would be a massive boon for safety and comfort, without impeding the ability for people who still choose to drive to be able to.

Also, be better, ABC

Strong agree. A text transcription would be great, and personally I'd love it if they allowed you to play back audio at 2x speed because their presenters all speak so slowly.

[–] fiat_lux@kbin.social 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

The thing is, a car-dependent world makes this worse for people, not better.

As someone who also can't drive, I totally agree. But the only existing infrastructure I can use right now to get somewhat direct access to a location is a taxi. Even if I had a few thousand dollars to casually drop on a mobility scooter... stairs. Fucking stairs everywhere. And reception desks/bars made for 1.8m tall standing humans. And furniture packed so tight that you can't get past it, or just the casual rental bikes scattered in the middle of a footpath that has no curb cuts. Everywhere.

Shutting down the roads before providing viable substitutes and/or appropriate facilities is short-sighted and a terrible idea. And for me and many others, a terrifying prospect.

one of the best things we could do would be to permanently turn our CBDs into pedestrianised zones. Places where drivers are entirely allowed to go if they want, but where they have to expect to be driving very slowly because pedestrians get complete right of way.

We're getting more of these in Sydney CBD, and thankfully the council is getting more proactive in providing more public seating, but I can't go there much or for long enough to visit maybe 1 or 2 businesses. From an atmosphere / community standpoint, I really love them. From a medical standpoint, I associate them with a high likelihood of pain and injury, and so I avoid them. I can't even imagine how expensive it would be to try to get a taxi going through multiple streets encountering those few pedestrians who think "fuck your taxi fare, cars must obey me, you should be walking too, so i will block your path intentionally", even though I would much rather be walking like everyone else. I've already copped abuse getting out of a taxi that was dropping me off because it was 'illegally stopping'.

We need ways of allowing people to do much more than just stand and walk in a public space before many people can realistically use those public spaces. Increasing the amount of those before making them accessible will hurt a lot of people, I'm just one of them.

Once a week? Fuck no.

[–] abhibeckert@beehaw.org 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

This, 100% this.

I'm able bodied, but I was a full time carer for my mother who was wheelchair/electric scooter bound for years before she passed away from complications. Cities with pedestrian only areas were, in practice, a nightmare whenever we visited them... which we rarely did because life was so hard there.

And it's especially bad when it's a temporary setup. If you want to have a pedestrian only area then make it pedestrian only 24/7/365. That way whatever issues there are (stairs/etc) will actually be removed instead of just "oh I'll do that when the market is closed".

[–] fiat_lux@kbin.social 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

which we rarely did because life was so hard there

I took the alternate route and put myself in the middle of the city. Can't fuck with me as much when there are fewer metres involved.

And it’s especially bad when it’s a temporary setup. If you want to have a pedestrian only area then make it pedestrian only 24/7/365.

Agreed. The pedestrianisation of George St was successful because there were alternate parallel routes to use, public transport was built in, and additional permanent public accommodations built.

The idea of especially King St Newtown shutting down temporarily is horrifying. If for no other reason than emergency services getting stuck in endless one way lanes. That's before we get to the overcrowded public transport and totally fucked paths.

[–] abhibeckert@beehaw.org 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I took the alternate route and put myself in the middle of the city. Can’t fuck with me as much when there are fewer metres involved.

Which city though?

For example, in some European cities I've visited (and struggled with a wheelchair) the "ground" floor is commonly about waist high off the ground, with a basement beneath that floor, and properties might be too small (e.g. homes that are about the same width as a typical Australian bedroom with no front yard and no side yard either - shared walls with the houses next door). There's literally not enough space for a ramp up to the ground floor or down to the basement, and you can't add an elevator because the building was built 200 years ago and you're not allowed to ruin the history of the area by making structural changes.

It's, obviously, easy enough to find a home for yourself in those cities that is wheelchair friendly... but all your friends and family won't do that and 90% of the businesses won't be wheelchair compatible either. Shopping, in those cities, means the person in a wheelchair waits out on the footpath while someone else goes into the business to buy stuff for them.

[–] prime_factor@aussie.zone 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

In Japan is common for a main street in a shopping district to be closed for vehicular traffic on Weekends.

However it's pretty much only the main street that gets closed.

Japanese law also puts more responsibility for the driver of the bigger vehicle to avoid an accident as well. So streets where vehicular traffic are allowed are somewhat chill as well.

[–] sin_free_for_00_days@sopuli.xyz 1 points 1 year ago

When I was in Germany, given years and years ago, most towns bigger than a village had a pedestrian only shopping area. Full time no cars.

[–] Zagorath@aussie.zone 13 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

It's safer, better for businesses, and great for people's health & the environment. What's not to love‽

[–] LineNoise@kbin.social 19 points 1 year ago

Our cheapest housing is car dependent. These ideas sound nice but without enormous infrastructure investment, projects that will take a decade or more, the reality is that they disproportionately benefit wealthy areas that are well served by public transport to the detriment of poorer areas.

[–] DogMuffins@discuss.tchncs.de -5 points 1 year ago

I can imagine that it would be incredibly disruptive for some businesses and some people - to a point where it could become an impediment to public support for more walkable cities.

Sadly, our cities are designed for cars. Simply not using a car doesn't solve the problems for most people.

[–] Edgelord_Of_Tomorrow@lemmy.world 11 points 1 year ago

No, that just causes arbitrary problems for businesses and people who live and work in the city.

Congestion charges are the way to go. For better or worse we live in a capitalist society so if you want to change behaviour, there needs to be a cost for it.

[–] DavidDoesLemmy@aussie.zone 10 points 1 year ago

I'm all for it. The more we can curb car usage the better.

[–] abhibeckert@beehaw.org 5 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Why do it on a street? I'd much rather do it on a footpath. Or a school sports oval. You know, the places we already have diverse markets, tasty food, live music, etc every weekend in Australian cities.

My local market runs on the main street of a beach suburb, and it causes all kinds of disruption. For example if you stay in one of the hotels there, you can't access the hotel car park which catches tourists out all the time - the road closes at 5am and if their car was in the park overnight - too bad, can't use the car until 5pm. Sucks to be you if you're flying out of the country that day and now you have to pay whatever the hire company will charge to pick up your car from the hotel.

And, being the main thoroughfare in the suburb obviously it's also the bus route. Except on market days. On market days all of the places people want to access (even the market) effectively don't have public transport. It's a 45 minute walk in often very hot weather to the nearest bus stop. Waiting for a Taxi will take even longer since they're like 10x busier on market days.

Every other breach market in the city is on the footpath between the main street and the beach. That works a thousand times better.

[–] ME5SENGER_24@lemm.ee 2 points 1 year ago

I like the idea of devoting huge portions of urban streets to outdoor markets on the weekends. I don’t live in Australia, but the sentiment is the same. I think metropolitan areas can take some of their most congested blocks and shut them down to vehicles for 2 days a week and open the street to push-cart vendors and pedestrians only.

[–] ZeroEcks@lemmy.ml 2 points 1 year ago

I've been to car free day in Jakarta, it's huge! It doesn't even last very long (over by 10?) But so many people ride their bikes on the road