Kinda hard to convince people suicide is caused by owning a firearm and not, you know, the reasons they committed suicide. Once again pointing societal issues as simply “not enough restrictions”, assuming that’ll fix anything. Waste of time.
this post was submitted on 26 Sep 2023
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It's not the root cause, but I'm sure having easy access to a gun seems a lot quicker and cleaner than, for example, hanging yourself. I know a lot of people who probably wouldn't be around right now if their folks kept guns in the house.
It’s not the root cause, but I’m sure having easy access to a gun seems a lot quicker and cleaner than, for example, hanging yourself.
we're getting into the macabre a little bit here but, to be brief: yeah. if it was required people attempt to hang themselves (or overdose, or any other non-firearm method of suicide), pretty much all the data i'm aware of indicates the suicide rate would drop appreciably from where it is now in the US (45,000-50,000 deaths a year).
The path of least resistance from thought to action is very important. I wouldn’t actually know of an easy way if I wanted to kill myself right now. Having a gun in my drawer could easily make a bad day into a final day.
I mean... Alterative would be to have proper social policy where less peopleare pushed to killself...
Can't so that tho in America ;)
Or both ? It is not either or. There is no single thing that can drop suicide to zero, but plenty of well known measures that can reduce it. Seems weird to blatantly ignore one of the most effective ones.
What measure are you proposing again?
The pro-gun crowd doesn't care. There's no such thing as a body they won't sweep under the rug and suicide makes it easy.
I believe the going theory is firearms are more likely to succeed whereas other means aren't. So you get fewer suicide attempts and more suicides :(
We need to be asking why are teen boys committing suicide at high rates? But also we need to be able to support and help them somehow instead of casting them off on their own once they hit puberty.
PS:
Vinik noted that the suicide rate, already at a 20-year high, is rising the most quickly among young people of color.
Article goes on to talk about the difficulty of accessing mental health care for black boys, and other factors.
Presently, the firearm suicide rate is highest with Native American and Alaska Native young men and Black men — but Asian and Pacific Islanders, Latinx, and Black young men constitute the fastest-growing firearm suicide rates of any racial and ethnic groups in the Unites States.
Also
Michael pointed to “traditional, cisgender masculinity” as a factor in the rising suicide rate among teenage boys and young men.
“If you are a person that’s either been raised to believe that seeking help for mental health ailments is a sign of weakness, you might also be a person at risk for suicide,” Michael said.
People always say it's about metal problems and not guns. And that might be true, but will you Americans ever try and fix that? Maybe by reducing healthcare prices or something.
So far it seems like the answer is: No, we won't do anything about it.
At very least it makes sense to force parents to keep their guns locked away from their children and everyone else.
No-one under 18 should ever be allowed non supervised access to weapons and everyone over should have to take a mandatory safety and usage course and of course a comprehensive background check.
These are all things having little to do with suicide: Japan completely disarmed everyone outside of government in the 90's, and they have better access to healthcare than Americans, but suicide rates only grew. Attention needs to be on root causes, like the explosive rise in loneliness and identifying how to repair some of the social changes brought on by a complete paradigm shift to how humans share information and interact with one another.
These are all things having little to do with suicide: Japan completely disarmed everyone outside of government in the 90’s, and they have better access to healthcare than Americans, but suicide rates only grew.
Japan's suicide rate remains substantially lower than America's suicide rate (particularly with respect to men) according to WHO data. this is particularly noteworthy because of Japanese cultural attitudes toward suicide (seen as morally neutral or honorable in certain circumstances, rather than consistently reprehensible as in America). it would imply the disarming you're talking about is putting a significant damper on the rate.
Hot damn, BUT I question American face values specifically because it's conflating a second epidemic: overdoses are often recorded as suicide when it's not a clear accident like a medical interaction with prescriptions - it's up to the coroner.
Over working people will do that even if you adequate social policy
In america daddies drive us like it is 1855 SouthCarolina plantation...
Then everyone pukachu face when we have ton of negative externalities, of which suicide is just one.
Before people jump these kids don't work.... Their parents do and precarious economic situation with lack of emotional and parental support destroys child's feeling of self worth.
But no problem we got alpha daddy thought leader to teach them how to be men...
OG capitalist solution that's working very well!
and they have better access to healthcare than Americans,
Totally inaccurate for mental healthcare. No insurance covers psychology or counseling. Psychiatry is covered to a degree but is a check and pills which, alone, is not helpful in most cases.
Access is about more than billing.
In the US you need to wait multiple months to see a specialist, about 9 where i live as a new patient, and/or pay massively out of pocket for a private specialist ( $300-1000 per session).
Your other option is to say you're thinking of killing yourself, but this is a direct route to involuntary care which red-flags you and gets your guns confiscated with virtually no hope of having your rights restored, as well as a record that gets in the way of getting a new job, housing, etc.
So, if you're the average depressed person, have zero friends and have non-zero guns, you're kind of on an island.
We have long waits her, too, generally. It's also still quite expensive here. If you don't speak fluent japanese, also be prepared to spend a lot (my therapy was the same as my monthly rent, over 100k yen), but that's a non-issue for most people in Japan
I'm all for gun control, but if suicide rates are up it's because of our society not because of the tool used to commit the act. Suicide rates are the highest they've ever been in modern history and everyone is largely silent about it. Maybe one day humans will realize that they create society and can change it if they choose
I mean, if someone is suicidal, a tool that has a high chance of failure or a time where the effects can be reversed (like an overdose which might take time to set in and be treatable with prompt hospitalization) is going to lead to fewer deaths than one that is lethal instantly, because some who use it may not try again if they regret it.
Only 1 in 10 people who survive a suicide attempt go on to die by suicide. The number is much the same the world over, regardless of method.
Very few people survive putting a gun in their mouth and pulling the trigger.
There is a record high number of children doing exactly that with their father's guns. I wonder how many of those fathers claimed the gun was to "keep their family safe"? I wonder how many of them taught their children how to load and fire the round that killed them?
There's actual lives behind those numbers.
The argument is, gun control treats the symptom and not the cause. Personally, I'm mixed on it. I definitely think we should be severely limiting access to automatic weapons, and others along those lines. But too much control over legitimate hunting weapons is an attack on a lifestyle, and I absolutely see the need for handguns now that I live in an area with very large predators.
Instead, I feel we'd be much better off attacking the social injustice that leads people to feel so helpless and lost.
You could treat both at once if it wasn't for Republicans.
I think the core of this is the hurtful aspects of gender roles men and boys face about how to handle and express emotions creates the situation of increased suicidality. Yeah firearms access is going to enable suicidal people to act upon their ideation, but taking it away just leaves you with a depressed/anxious guy, who doesn't have the knowledge or resources to overcome his negative emotions. I'm not saying this in a "it's a mental health issue not a gun issue" way, but society really normalizes the ignorance of mens' emotions and for men to not build support for managing their emotions, be it intimate friendships, healthcare resources, healthy expression of emotions.
I think it's good topic to bring up, because there's a lot of things leading to men not doing too well, and I think it'd be dumb to ignore it, given the rise of acts of violence we've seen in the past decade from men who really feel disconnected or disillusioned with society. Finding out what we can do to help men cope with hardship in a more productive way, and ultimately address the root causes of the issues they face can improve things for men, as well as everyone in society.
Oh, of course, it's the guns that make them suicidal 🙄
Now, how the hell can we solve the problem if we can not even seriously recognize the cause?
The guns didn't make them suicidal, but they provide a very easy way to be impulsive.
I'm vaguely suicidal a good chunk of the time. I don't want to be anywhere near a gun.
My abstract for the linked article
Click to expand
Teenage boys' suicide rates in the US have increased sharply in recent years, especially among boys of color. Firearm access plays a major role, as 90% of youth who die by suicide use guns. The article discusses how traditional masculine norms discourage help-seeking, while easy access to guns in homes increases the risk of suicide fourfold for young men.
One expert recommends educating parents on safe gun storage, like childproofing, noting that over 90% of suicide attempts with guns end in death, making restrictions on access especially important for preventing youth suicide.
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It's a lot like saying the French Revolution happened not because of the absolutist royal family, but because the population had access to guillotines. If they didn't have guillotines, they'd probably be using knives or something, and the same can be said about this: If they didn't have a gun, they'd probably hang
It's not a lot like saying that at all.