this post was submitted on 21 Aug 2023
82 points (97.7% liked)

No Stupid Questions

35762 readers
1136 users here now

No such thing. Ask away!

!nostupidquestions is a community dedicated to being helpful and answering each others' questions on various topics.

The rules for posting and commenting, besides the rules defined here for lemmy.world, are as follows:

Rules (interactive)


Rule 1- All posts must be legitimate questions. All post titles must include a question.

All posts must be legitimate questions, and all post titles must include a question. Questions that are joke or trolling questions, memes, song lyrics as title, etc. are not allowed here. See Rule 6 for all exceptions.



Rule 2- Your question subject cannot be illegal or NSFW material.

Your question subject cannot be illegal or NSFW material. You will be warned first, banned second.



Rule 3- Do not seek mental, medical and professional help here.

Do not seek mental, medical and professional help here. Breaking this rule will not get you or your post removed, but it will put you at risk, and possibly in danger.



Rule 4- No self promotion or upvote-farming of any kind.

That's it.



Rule 5- No baiting or sealioning or promoting an agenda.

Questions which, instead of being of an innocuous nature, are specifically intended (based on reports and in the opinion of our crack moderation team) to bait users into ideological wars on charged political topics will be removed and the authors warned - or banned - depending on severity.



Rule 6- Regarding META posts and joke questions.

Provided it is about the community itself, you may post non-question posts using the [META] tag on your post title.

On fridays, you are allowed to post meme and troll questions, on the condition that it's in text format only, and conforms with our other rules. These posts MUST include the [NSQ Friday] tag in their title.

If you post a serious question on friday and are looking only for legitimate answers, then please include the [Serious] tag on your post. Irrelevant replies will then be removed by moderators.



Rule 7- You can't intentionally annoy, mock, or harass other members.

If you intentionally annoy, mock, harass, or discriminate against any individual member, you will be removed.

Likewise, if you are a member, sympathiser or a resemblant of a movement that is known to largely hate, mock, discriminate against, and/or want to take lives of a group of people, and you were provably vocal about your hate, then you will be banned on sight.



Rule 8- All comments should try to stay relevant to their parent content.



Rule 9- Reposts from other platforms are not allowed.

Let everyone have their own content.



Rule 10- Majority of bots aren't allowed to participate here.



Credits

Our breathtaking icon was bestowed upon us by @Cevilia!

The greatest banner of all time: by @TheOneWithTheHair!

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
 

I mean, it's usually used to undermine a cause by killing their leaders, but their death can also cause them to become a martyr and get even more support. Which is generally true for the majority of assassinations?

Why I asked? Because recent events in Ecuador got me wondering.

all 20 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] vzq@lemmy.blahaj.zone 40 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (3 children)

From my limited sample size, they don’t help. But they don’t help the cause of the assassin either.

Paradoxically, the winner seems to be the status quo as society clamps down on the people around the assassin, and mainstreams the victim as part of the grieving process.

[–] Mr_Pap_Shmear@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago

winner seems to be the status quo

The house always wins

[–] Bye@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago

Well then, when the assassin is doing so in order to preserve some status quo, they win.

Example: MLK. Killing him did a great job of preventing a very very very charismatic leader from bringing white and black people together against their corporate overlords.

Another example is the infiltration and sabotage of OWS.

[–] chumbalumber@lemmy.blahaj.zone 25 points 1 year ago

It depends on the context and the motivation. The assassination of Yitzhak Rabin, for instance, I'd argue was a success -- it halted any momentum the reconciliation movement had at the time, and led to the situation we're in today. Would talks have broken down anyway? Who's to say.

By contrast, the assassination of JFK, though the purpose is unknown, allowed Johnson to galvanise his party in support of a raft of measures.

[–] twistypencil@lemmy.world 16 points 1 year ago (1 children)
[–] pjhenry1216@kbin.social 13 points 1 year ago

Depends how strong the movement really is. It can produce a martyr or it can produce a chilling effect. Some assassinations aren't even of overly successful movements.

[–] M0oP0o@mander.xyz 11 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I remember reading somewhere that historicity most political assassinations where mainly used to create chaos and almost never done to a direct opponent, but mainly to stir up other groups.

Not sure if that is how it works today.

[–] NeoNachtwaechter@lemmy.world 6 points 1 year ago

Usually such an assassination hurts a lot, and it also hurts their cause a lot.

In rare cases, a kinda martyr effect happens, then it helps their cause. But there are preconditions: the cause must be well known, and it needs many supporters already. One (or some) of them must be able to take a new leadership position. And they must be able to withstand the fear of more assassinations.

[–] toasteecup@lemmy.world 6 points 1 year ago

Depends honestly.

Japans recent assassination actually managed to help the cause of the assassin. https://youtu.be/wFn6gWYMDpo

[–] Zippy@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

If it is of a opposition candidate, rarely does a new candidate of similar policy emerge that can't take his place. This it certainly can help a sitting president/government. If it is of a government official or person sitting in power, often that results in chaos and worse outcomes. At least in the short term.

I can't think of too many assassinations that resulted in a better situation. Even in the cases where the leaders deserved to be removed from power, often those that are violent enough to carry it out, regardless of their good intentions, succumb to their extreme ideology and are no better.

[–] letsalllovelain@discuss.tchncs.de 5 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Not a historian, but from what history I know, it generally depends on the momentum of the person who was assassinated.

If the assassinee is both a) popular and b) not a force in the status quo, then I would say that generally assassination halts their platform.

If the assassinee is popular, and at work in the status quo, it only serves to make their platform more visible and therefore generally stronger.

One example I can think of of the first situation are the Roman Gracchi, who were populists during the late Roman republic. Assassination of two successive 'Brothers of the People' led to a complete rout of their platform - the Lex Agraria.

There are many examples of the second situation - MLK jr. is an easy one. The platform of MLK jr. had already come to be accepted in the nation's consciousness as right - it is only the logical conclusion of the cessation of legal slavery some 100 years prior. Therefore, when he was assassinated, it only served to justify the directive of the nation.

I'm certainly open to examples exploring exceptions to the two cases provided, as well. I think it's an interesting topic.

[–] Thedogspaw@midwest.social 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

They can definitely hurt the cause of the assassinated 1 there dead 2 they can force the movement under ground by taking away its leadership

[–] ABCDE@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

For example?

[–] mohKohn@kbin.social 3 points 1 year ago

the assassination of Alexander the second backfired completely.

[–] specialseaweed@kbin.social 1 points 1 year ago

There is no question that the assassin of Yitzak Rabin got exactly what he wanted. After an initial backlash, assassination is successful as a catalyst for policy change far more often than we care to admit.

[–] rufus@discuss.tchncs.de 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martyr

Since you're asking which is generally true: I think most victims of political assassination aren't Martyrs and just disappear. Think of all of the victims of the CCP, the Nazis...