this post was submitted on 19 Aug 2023
678 points (97.9% liked)

Technology

59092 readers
6622 users here now

This is a most excellent place for technology news and articles.


Our Rules


  1. Follow the lemmy.world rules.
  2. Only tech related content.
  3. Be excellent to each another!
  4. Mod approved content bots can post up to 10 articles per day.
  5. Threads asking for personal tech support may be deleted.
  6. Politics threads may be removed.
  7. No memes allowed as posts, OK to post as comments.
  8. Only approved bots from the list below, to ask if your bot can be added please contact us.
  9. Check for duplicates before posting, duplicates may be removed

Approved Bots


founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
top 50 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] Chozo@kbin.social 80 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (6 children)

Don't post the entire article in the OP, please. You'll end up getting C&D's sent to your instance admins if publishers keep seeing this, because it's - ironically enough in this context - copyright infringement.

Just post a snippet to stay within fair use. Don't ruin Lemmy for all of us over something so silly.

[–] Danc4498@lemmy.ml 5 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Or, even better, use AI to generate a tldr.

load more comments (2 replies)
load more comments (5 replies)
[–] fosho@lemmy.ca 40 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

couldn't help but lol at this quote:

US copyright law is designed to adapt to the times.

[–] scottywh@lemmy.world 19 points 1 year ago

"To the times Disney pays people off enough..."

[–] MyFairJulia@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago

Oh it does adapt the time the copyright is valid.

[–] Set_secret@sopuli.xyz 34 points 1 year ago (2 children)

seems a pretty easy solution here. just say you've written it.. no reliable software exists for proving text is AI generated.

[–] nucleative@lemmy.world 22 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Doing that under oath is a crime, so those claiming copyright and their employees would be taking a lot of risk of eventually being discovered.

[–] crapwittyname@lemm.ee 24 points 1 year ago (2 children)

"Need to get away with murder? Easy! Just say 'it wasn't me, it must of been someone else who done it'. For bonus points, combine with a wink to the hot judge/juror of your choice."

load more comments (2 replies)
[–] Draconic_NEO@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago

It's not like that's ever stopped any of them before.

[–] Thisisforfun@lemmy.world 10 points 1 year ago

I changed some words. Now it's mine. I dunno, error, search and replace "Mike" to "Michael".

[–] jray4559@lemmy.sdf.org 32 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

This doesn't change much because of a simple difference: This was an AI product put in wholesale.

There was no human intervention in (visually) creating this product, thus no human can claim copyright.

Studios aren't gonna do this when replacing some of their writers, because AI may not be good enough yet. Instead, it'll be a smaller team, they'll do the edits, and they can claim copyright.

This only really matters If AI advances to the point where we can completely create a full movie or TV show from scratch with just purely prompting, which, currently, we can not.

[–] Lyrl@lemm.ee 11 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

A spoof of Seinfeld runs 24/7 from only AI input after the initial prompt. It is bad, but exists. Depending on your quality standards, we are there. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nothing,_Forever

[–] aidan@lemmy.world 9 points 1 year ago (1 children)

The rigging and models are copyrightable.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] afraid_of_zombies@lemmy.world 9 points 1 year ago (1 children)

That's what I see likely. Writers will eventually use this as a tool. Say setup a scene and generate 40 versions. Pick the best one, edit it, feed back what you improved, generate another 40...

We are still reading Shakespeare and I think part of the reason was how he wrote those plays.

Write the scene, pass to actors, actors have notes, rewrite scene, pass to actors, have actors act out scenes, make changes, run changes by actors, rewrite scene, perform scene, watch audiences (are they laughing at the jokes? Are they sad when they are supposed to be sad?), make edits,.....

He did it like a collaborative activity and gradual refinement. Almost none of his plays have an official indisputable version, instead we have multiple versions with slight differences.

Stop worrying about your jobs writers, this is a tool. Use it.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] Arotrios@kbin.social 24 points 1 year ago (2 children)

It looks like the key in the ruling here was that the AI created the work without the participation of a human artist. Thaler tried to let his AI, "The Creativity Machine" register the copyright, and then claim that he owned it under the work for hire clause.

The case was ridiculous, to be honest. It was clearly designed as an attempt to give corporations building these AI's the copyrights to the work they generate from stealing the work of thousands of human artists. What's clever here is that they were also trying to sideline the human operators of AI prompts. If the AI, and not the human prompting it, owns the copyright, then the company that owns that AI owns the copyright - even if the human operator doesn't work for them.

You can see how open this interpretation would be to abuse by corporate owners of AI, and why Thaler brought the case, which was clearly designed to set a precedent that would allow any media company with an AI to cut out human content creators entirely.

The ruling is excellent, and I'm glad Judge Howell saw the nuances and the long term effects of her decision. I was particularly happy to see this part:

In March, the copyright office affirmed that most works generated by AI aren’t copyrightable but clarified that AI-assisted materials qualify for protection in certain instances. An application for a work created with the help of AI can support a copyright claim if a human “selected or arranged” it in a “sufficiently creative way that the resulting work constitutes an original work of authorship,” it said.

This protects a wide swath of artists who are doing incredible AI assisted work, without granting media companies a stranglehold on the output of the new technology.

[–] GunnarRunnar@kbin.social 7 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I wonder could you interpret this as AI created movie script isn't copyrightable but the actual filmed movie is. That would invite some weird competition, like we've seen over the years with the copycat movies.

load more comments (2 replies)
load more comments (1 replies)
[–] JackGreenEarth@lemm.ee 24 points 1 year ago (1 children)

That's great! It means artists can continue to use AI art for projects they don't intend to sell, and Hollywood, which already has too much power, still relies on others.

[–] Fisk400@feddit.nu 15 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Artists can still make money and copyright their stuff. You just can't use exclusively AI to create the images. Cleaning up an AI generated image count as artistic work. Color correct, add missing fingers, make the eyes point the same way, remove background monstrosities. It all adds up.

Unfortunately this also goes for Hollywood. They can generate the bulk of the work and have one guy do the editing and suddenly they own the edit.

The real losers in this are the people that generate images with no modifications and post it as is while pretending that they are doing art.

[–] SkySyrup@sh.itjust.works 6 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (3 children)

You are correct. Hollywood will simply change up a couple things and then use the assets.

However, I‘m still undecided about how I think about whether generating AI art should count as Human-generated or not. On one hand, people can spend hours if not days or week perfecting a prompt with different tools like ControlNet, different promptstyles and etc. On the other hand, somebody comes up to midjourney, asks for a picture of a dragon wearing a T-Shirt and immediately gets an image that looks pretty decent. It’s probably not exactly what they wanted, but close enough, right? AI gets you 90% there what you want, and the other 10% is the super-hard part that takes forever. Anyway, sorry for dumping my though process from this comment chain on here xD

[–] nous@programming.dev 8 points 1 year ago (3 children)

That latter case likely wont be copyrightable, but the former can start to meet this criteria mentioned in the article:

An application for a work created with the help of AI can support a copyright claim if a human “selected or arranged” it in a “sufficiently creative way that the resulting work constitutes an original work of authorship,” it said.

The way I read that, the more instruction you give to the composition of the image (ie, how detailed and descriptive you are with your prompt) the better claim you would have to copyrighting the resultant work.

I think the mistake lots of people are making is that all AI generated art is the same and should all be treated the same. Which is likely not going to be the case. And Copyright rulings are mostly done on a case by case bases, unless there is significant change this will likely still hold true and so one ruling on some AI generated art might not result in the same ruling for a different piece created in a different way with different effort.

What this case shot down is the claim that AI can claim copyright on a works as an AI is not human and copyright only applies to humans. Which is the same stance courts have tend before with content created by animals.

load more comments (3 replies)
[–] Fisk400@feddit.nu 3 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Sorry, I am firmly in the camp where that isn't art. The prompt writing can be a literary work but the result isn't a work of art. You set up the environment that allowed the image to exist but you didnt make the image.

[–] Prewash_Required@sh.itjust.works 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

But the treatment of photographs in the decision fits your description. The photographer sets up the environment that allowed the image to exist but it's the camera that makes the image. The judge held that was protectable because the image represents the human's mental conception of the scene. It's not a ridiculous stretch to consider AI to be merely a camera for the prompt-writer's mental conception. I am certain this argument has been or will be tried in court. The IP owner industry is far from done litigating this topic.

[–] elbarto777@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago

Man, if AI gets to reproduce pictures exactly as I imagine them, then that's an excellent point. It's my creation. The AI just plasmated it in a screen.

But for any other scenario... it's tricky business.

load more comments (1 replies)
load more comments (1 replies)
load more comments (1 replies)
[–] AKADAP@lemmy.ml 22 points 1 year ago (1 children)

This limitation is too easy to get around. Have AI generate a picture. Take a photo of that picture and destroy the original. Copyright is now owned by the photographer. Have an AI write some music, change one note of that music and call in your arrangement of that piece, destroy the original music, and only your arrangement that you have a copyright on exists. etc.

[–] Lucidlethargy@sh.itjust.works 17 points 1 year ago (4 children)

As a photographer that knows copyright law, I assure you flat-art copying a work of art does not make it yours.

load more comments (4 replies)
[–] Millie@lemm.ee 21 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (3 children)

Talk about an inaccurate headline. The conclusion here isn't that AI art can't be copyrighted, it's that AI cannot be a copyright holder. But it's AI, so we can't actually expect anyone to pull their head out of their ass and give it enough thought to write an article that isn't garbage.

Instead we have yet another thread about this case in which no one actually has any idea what the ruling was. Very informative.

[–] Pipoca@lemmy.world 10 points 1 year ago

From the opinion;

Both parties have now moved for summary judgment, which motions present the sole issue of whether a work generated entirely by an artificial system absent human involvement should be eligible for copyright. See Pl.’s Mot. Summ. J. (Pl.’s Mot.”), ECF No. 16; Defs.’ Cross-Mot. Summ. J. (“Defs.’ Mot.”), ECF No. 17. For the reasons explained below, defendants are correct that human authorship is an essential part of a valid copyright claim, and therefore plaintiff’s pending motion for summary judgment is denied and defendants’ pending cross-motion for summary judgment is granted.

AI being the copyright holder was never even in question. Some guy tried to register AI art in his company's name, using the AI as the author of a work for hire. The Court found that he couldn't get the copyright as a work for hire since no copyright existed in the first place.

load more comments (2 replies)
[–] HiddenLayer5@lemmy.ml 20 points 1 year ago

You didn't create it so why the hell should you be able to copyright it?

[–] Desistance@lemmy.world 18 points 1 year ago

The Judge is right. AI is not a living citizen.

[–] 8BitRoadTrip@lemm.ee 15 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Interesting that he filed the original copyright application as a work for hire situation. I guarantee he didn’t pay AI anything .

[–] Deiv@lemmy.ca 6 points 1 year ago

Yea, I spoke to Al. The dudes pissed, didn't get paid shit

[–] fne8w2ah@lemmy.world 13 points 1 year ago
[–] wwaxwork@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Give them time to lobby and get a friendlier judge and try again.

[–] Esqplorer@lemmy.zip 3 points 1 year ago

If a human uses AI to create a story and then edits and tells it in greater detail the new work would be copyrighted via the editor's transformative act. This ruling is not a win for the WGA or other creatives that don't want to use AI.

AI will just become our ghost writer, which is a practice as old as writing.

[–] Phazei@lemmy.ml 5 points 1 year ago

Some AI work is created with a simple prompt, but the best stuff uses lots of in painting and out painting and adjustments. That would be copyrightable, there's lots of human control beyond a prompt, there are lots of cool videos of the process on YouTube. By the time AI will be able to generate full processes, videos, storylines, voices, etc, without human intervention, we won't need the movie studios either. I'm hoping we reach that in 3 years.

[–] Danc4498@lemmy.ml 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

So, if I use AI, then tweak it in photoshop, is us human created and now able to be copyrighted?

[–] Zeth0s@lemmy.world 6 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Basically it's how already works with cameras. Subjects and composition are enough to copyright images. Even without post-processing

load more comments
view more: next ›