this post was submitted on 17 Aug 2023
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This is very troubling, and I'm not even sure where to start. I recently received an email message from my ISP which alerted me to an incoming update. I didn't worry too much since this is obviously not the first update they've ever pushed through.

However, after this update, I noticed that my guest connections and some other things had changed / disappeared. I logged on to my router, and I immediately noticed my custom password had been reset to the default. No problem, I entered it.

At this point, I saw that all of my options were greyed out. I could change the password, which I did, but nothing else. I immediately called my ISP.

I was told that I would have to use their app now, so as much as I dislike using proprietary phone apps, I conceded and installed the app through the Play store.

However, the agent was not entirely honest with me. I still can't bifurcate my 2.4g and 5g connections, nor can I add or remove any guest connections. I immediately enabled "privacy mode" via the app, which purportedly prevents information from being collected by something called "HomePass," and I "Delete[d] Guard events" whatever the hell that means, but this seems really troubling. I can no longer access my modem/router settings via the normal interface, but have to use an Android app?

There is only one other ISP in my area. They have much worse/slower service, but should I switch, or is this just the "new normal"? Does what I'm describing even make sense? I'm not a tech expert, but I feel like I've self-taught myself how to navigate these settings, and learned from others in online forums, but now ... an Android app?

I'd appreciate any advice. I'd even be willing to purchase my own modem/router instead of using the one from my ISP, if that fixes this mess.

Edit: So I need my own router, at least. I did some research, and these are the ones I can get locally that are within my budget:

  • TP-Link Archer AC1900 Dual-Band Mu-Mimo Wi-Fi Router with Gigabit Port

  • Linksys AC1200 Dual Band WiFi 5 Router

  • TP-Link Archer AX1500 WiFi 6 Dual-Band Wireless Router | up to 1.5 Gbps Speeds

  • TP-Link Archer C54 | AC1200 MU-MIMO Dual-Band WiFi Router

  • NETGEAR - Nighthawk AC1900 WiFi Router, 1.9Gbps (R6900) I’VE BEEN WARNED AGAINST NETGEAR THOUGH IN OTHER FORUMS

  • TP-Link | AX1800 4 Stream Dual-Band WiFi 6 Wireless Router | up to 1.8 Gbps Speeds

  • TP-Link Archer AX3000 | 4 Stream Dual-Band WiFi 6 Wireless Router | up to 3 Gbps Speeds

  • Linksys E7350 AX1800 Wi-Fi 6 Wireless Router

Am I right in thinking the TP-Link AX3000 is best?

Edit 2: At first, I bought the Netgear AC1900, which seemed like a great deal. Turns out it was unusable without creating a netgear account, so I returned it in exchange for the TP-Link Archer AX1500, and it appears to be working! I got everything set up pretty close to the way it was before, except even better.

Once I save money, I'll also invest in a different modem and return this one to my ISP.

This was a big wake-up call for me in terms of privacy. I never listened to people saying not to use your ISP's equipment because I always trusted my ISP (it's not one of the big name ones). Never trust a company. Lesson learned. I appreciate all the responses I got! This community is great!

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[–] empireOfLove@lemmy.one 175 points 1 year ago (7 children)

Get. Rid. Of. Their. Router.

ISP provided networking routers are inherently garbage. They don't want users messing with that, because your average user doesn't even know what the fuck an ethernet cable is and will break everything by fucking around in it.

Run your own router and put theirs into modem only mode with routing and wifi disabled. If that's not an option ask their tech support if you can buy your own DOCSIS/fiber modem (or whatever hardware you use) and return their hardware. If they also don't allow that.... well, switch or just suck it and deal with it while the ISP rubs their nipples some more.

[–] LinkOpensChest_wav@lemmy.one 9 points 1 year ago (13 children)

https://cdn.imgchest.com/files/j7kzcvmllm7.png

So I can't disable wireless mode. This too is greyed out, and it also doesn't let me disable wireless via the app. (When I try, it throws a popup that says "You must have at least one network."

So is my best bet to get my own modem with router built in, or could I still connect a router to this, but never use the wifi connection through their equipment? I don't have a lot of money, so I also want to be a bit mindful of cost.

[–] keeb420@kbin.social 14 points 1 year ago (12 children)

I'd check to see if your provider has an approved modem list, buy one off that and then run your own router.

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[–] fraksken@infosec.pub 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

That is literally fucked. There are some scenario's where I can imagine an ISP wanting to force wireless on. a mesh network for their customers sounds like the most straightforward reason. if you cannot replace the router, faraday the shit out of it. put your own router behind the isp router and don't forget to change the MAC address of the router (isp will probably block any 3rd party router macs on the network. seen it before)

[–] trafficnab@lemm.ee 6 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (4 children)

That shit would get thrown in a metal cage and treated as a radioactive DMZ network-wise if I was forced to use it

My ISP is the dumb pipe my internet comes from, it's bad enough that they inject bandwidth cap warnings into the raw HTML of webpages like some sort of adware virus, they can stay the fuck out of my local network

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[–] roguetrick@kbin.social 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I bought a refurbished cable modem for less than $30 off of amazon that's working well for me. I'd just go that route instead of using their equipment. Even if it breaks in a year, that's savings over renting ISP equipment.

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[–] AlexisFR@jlai.lu 5 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Is the Unify Dream Machine a good option?

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[–] mojo@lemm.ee 30 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Never use their router. Obviously for the issue you're having now, but also for financial reasons. They charge ridiculous fees for renting their shit routers when buying one for like $120 will be a significant upgrade over there's and will start saving money like 6 to 8 months in. Also it's not tied to the company, so you get to keep it.

[–] ruckblack@sh.itjust.works 6 points 1 year ago

I even had the tech try to install their own router after I'd told them I'd be using my own hardware, and then he ARGUED with me that theirs was better and faster. Didn't ask for your opinion, install the service the way I asked, I know what I'm talking about in this space.

[–] finestnothing@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago

I spent about $200 on a router and modem when I moved into my last apartment, they have already paid for themselves based on the fees that Xfinity would've charged to "rent" the equipment. Plus they're significantly better than the equipment that isp's provide

[–] Malgas@beehaw.org 3 points 1 year ago

And the same goes for modems. Those monthly equipment fees add up fast.

[–] TigrisMorte@kbin.social 22 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Never use the ISP provided equipment on your network. Even if you must use their modem and router, have them turn of the wifi, and connect your router to their garbage using the WAN port to connect from their LAN port with nothing else connected. If they refuse to turn off their wifi and you can't do so through the admin, cover their crap in a Faraday cage to kill the signal. Always enter your own DNS settings on your router, never use their DNS. Make sure to use an encrypted DNS to avoid them hijacking it.

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[–] kmartburrito@lemmy.world 19 points 1 year ago (2 children)

OP, people often mention openwrt, but you can also buy a FreshTomato compatible router and also try that. It's super user friendly, regularly updated, and has a significant amount of features you would likely never find on average routers, just like openwrt.

I really like using the VPN functionality and running an openVPN server and dynamic DNS setup so I can always connect my phones to a trusted VPN and backhaul my connection through home while I'm out and on a risky open connection.

As a Cybersecurity professional, I feel like it's got a lot of good things going for it that I really appreciate, and you can control it without the ISP being able to intrude on your network.

I run my wired connections through that and use the router for DHCP, and then also have a separate mesh system for my wireless. I can set up separate virtual networks as needed and have them separated/isolated altogether, or allow specifically how I want them to see each other, etc.

You can even set up entirely different networks by port on the back of the router. Cool stuff. Openwrt is good too, but most people don't know about FreshTomato I don't think, it spun off of Tomato several years ago when those devs quit updating it.

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[–] hedders@fedia.io 14 points 1 year ago (4 children)

Never ceases to amaze me just how awful US ISPs are. Why do they get to behave like this? Are they local monopolies or something?

[–] argv_minus_one@beehaw.org 11 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Yes, they are local monopolies. They stay out of each other's territory, like gangsters.

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[–] LinkOpensChest_wav@lemmy.one 7 points 1 year ago (2 children)

There's one other big provider here, but it's not nearly as fast or reliable, nor as easy to work with. Up until today, I always praised my ISP, but this is absolutely bonkers!

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[–] czech@kbin.social 3 points 1 year ago

They are an oligopoly. Funny video about it with nsfw language: https://youtu.be/0ilMx7k7mso

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[–] Etterra@lemmy.world 14 points 1 year ago (1 children)

You should out the ISP by name. Fuck those guys

[–] LinkOpensChest_wav@lemmy.one 4 points 1 year ago

I know, but like I've said before, that would also be a bad choice for me regarding my own personal privacy.

If I felt comfortable doing so, I would have named them immediately because I'm utterly disgusted with this shit.

[–] Laitinlok@discuss.tchncs.de 13 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Not worth the hassle, replace the stupid router with an openwrt one

[–] LinkOpensChest_wav@lemmy.one 5 points 1 year ago

I was about to comment that I don't know how to do that, but it looks like openwrt actually has its own forums.

Still not ready to do this on the spot, but this is another thing worth educating myself about, thanks

[–] DanNZN@thelemmy.club 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I got a MikroTik router and never looked back. That thing is amazing.

Edit: typo

[–] Bigs@kbin.social 9 points 1 year ago

Name and shame, dude. Your post is great and we need some proper nouns.

[–] Turbo@lemmy.ml 8 points 1 year ago

That's unacceptable. I agree get a dumb modem from them and use your own Router/firewall/ access points

[–] yukichigai@kbin.social 7 points 1 year ago

Talk to your ISP about getting a modem only, without a built-in router, then purchase a separate router of your own. All-in-one modem/router combos are generally kind of crap anyway, and one that your ISP can control directly is obviously a problem on top of that. I get why they'd do that: most users don't know a damn thing about how to properly set up their network, and being able to change settings without walking the users through it would simplify things. Still crap, but I get why.

Even if you have to buy your own modem, definitely go for a modem-only device and a separate router. Personally I go the extra length of having a modem, a separate wired-only router, and a separate wireless access point for wifi. Combo devices have a habit of not managing memory well and needing to be reset more often.

[–] Jimmycakes@lemmy.world 7 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I saw your edit are you able to get an asus router in your budget? Check Facebook and Craigslist. That's gonna be the best brand you can buy with the most features. I got a little usb drive hooked up and it has a built in encrypted torrent Downloader. Mine is pretty expensive but I'm sure you can find a used one.

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[–] habanhero@lemmy.ca 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I have been running a TP-Link Archer C4000 for several years now. Super solid, great price, no complaints. For me the tri-band capability is more important than Wifi-AX, which isn't very useful unless you need incredibly fast network speed or if you have a ton of devices (which all need to be supporting AX).

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[–] hiajen@feddit.de 5 points 1 year ago

I wouldnt say thats normal ... (at least here in germany).

Maybe consider using the isp device as modem only and use your own router?

[–] MenacingMight@lemmy.one 5 points 1 year ago

Sounds like Comcast lol they suck. It sounds like you are using the router provided by your isp. Try getting your own equipment (router/modem).

[–] GreatBlue@infosec.pub 5 points 1 year ago

You could also look into OpenWrt and maybe get your device an open firmware. For a more advanced setup you can look into OPNsense, but you will probably need additional devices for WLAN, DECT, etc.

[–] Maoo@hexbear.net 4 points 1 year ago

To add to others' advice to get your own router and use the modem only to connect to the internet (WAN), consider getting a router on which you can install OpenWRT. This will give you much more confidence that only you control your network.

[–] kite@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago (5 children)

I don't know if anyone has murmurings this yet, but if you leave a landline that is through your ISP, and connected to the router, you may not be able to use your own router. Spectrum doors not let you, and despite all the research I did before, I did not find that out until after I purchased my own. You can ask them to split the line and use the old router with the phone, and your new router for internet, but there are potential issues with degradation of service involved, as well as the more mundane problems of running into ISP support who are not interested in understanding what you want, and getting the line actually, physically split.

[–] shortestbreath@lemm.ee 5 points 1 year ago (2 children)

In work for them. This is as intended. Its meant to reduce service calls where the customer borks it themselves. I'm not an expert so this may not apply everywhere, but you shouldn't have a problem using a non-spectrum router without even telling them. I don't use theirs. You should just be able to go buy it, plug the line in , and turn it on. They don't need to know. In recommend using your own anyway for many reasons. Yours will be more configurable and you can tell them you don't need theirs, saving you 7 bucks or whatever a month.

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[–] angelsomething@lemmy.one 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Ask for bridge mode and install your own router. It’s the first and most important step towards privacy. Also sounds like you got plume devices. Only use them in Wi-Fi bridge mode. You retain some of heir functions and utilities but you’ll still be in control of your network.

[–] Limit@lemm.ee 4 points 1 year ago

I've had bad luck with all the name brand router wifi combos. I've tried several high end models, from tplink to linksys to net gear. I've finally built a pfsense box as a router/firewall (qotom mini pc) and I've switched to ubiquity ap6 in my house. Finally something that works well for me.

Granted it depends on what you're comfortable with and what you use your devices for. I'm using vlans and vpns and different interfaces for various different things so I need the extra functionality pfsense offers.

[–] Vexz@kbin.social 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Depending on where you live you might just let your ISP give you a modem and you can choose the router yourself. ISPs use the TR-069 protocol which allows them to manage and administrate the router they gave you. This is probably what they did when they made the changes you mentioned. It even allows them to analyze your whole home network. Thanks to this they can spy on you if they want to. So my advice is to just get a modem from them and choose your own router because then they can't spy on you. My advice is to use OPNsense, it's open source.

Edit: Bridge mode + your own router so they can't spy on your home network would also do the trick.

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[–] liara@lemm.ee 3 points 1 year ago

It sounds like what you want is to either get a modem (either rented through the ISP or bought 3rd party, if your ISP supports it) and then ensure that this modem is in bridge mode without any sort of router features. That said, most places will just give you a dumb modem if you have no intention of using their router.

Then the other gear would be a router with the feature set you want. I personally am quite fond of my Mikrotik hap ac2 but the ac3 looks good too. I don't use the Mikrotik for the wifi either (I use unifi for that), but it's decent enough for a small space in a pinch.

Basically you would need to find out from your ISP if they allow you to bring your own gear -- modem and/or router, with the router being the more important of the two and get their help to either swap your existing device into a bridge or getting you something that can.

[–] Syrup@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago

Change iSP if you can, ans un any case you should use your own router running OpenWRT to have full control over your own network

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