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Hamas and Hezbollah are terrorist organizations, and Iran is a state sponsor of terrorism. Do you want to go to bat for them?
Calling the people you dislike “terrorists” to avoid critical thinking about the atrocities (including genocide) of your own side isn’t really the gotcha you think it is.
Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran, and Israel are currently acting as terrorist states/groups. That isn't up for debate, because it's objective reality.
I’m not sure that there is credible evidence of Iran and its affiliates targeting civilians the same way that the occupation has, their acts all seem to be targeting military installations rather than civilian targets. The occupation primarily targets civilians and civilian infrastructure.
I guess Oct 7 was just a figment of our collective imaginations.
That was a military attack on military targets. It’s hard to know for sure what the actual outcome of that day was though since the occupation prohibits investigations. Certainly there were many civilian deaths, but there isn’t any evidence that suggests they were an intended target or that the majority were even killed by Hamas.
I'm not calling them that on my own. I'm describing them the way multiple other nations have described them - not Israel. You only need to see their actions towards their own population to see why.
Otzma Jehudit is part of the Israeli Government coalition, it consists mainly of internationally wanted terrorists. and you want to bat for these terrorists? the ones who have been preaching the 14 words as a justification for genocide?
Assuming that's true, that's one group within the government. Find them, try them, and imprison them. On the other side are three entire genocidal terrorist regimes. Will you side with them? What do you think we should do with them?
we don't need to fucking find them, they are open, they give speeches about how starving and killing every Palestinian is a moral good on a daily basis. they ARE the government, who's going to put them in front of a judge and find them guilty, themselves? you are literally supporting a genocidal terrorist regime.
And apparently the other three genocidal terrorist regimes are better than them?
considering that all three of these regimes are not committing genocide at the moment, Iran not even interested in said genocide and the other two only existing because they are a resistance movement against Israel. yes, I think you can make a very compelling case that said one genocidal terrorist regime is worse than the others.
Hezbollah was relatively quiet before the war kicked off, Hamas was supported by the Israeli state under Netanyahu to act as a spoiler towards the PAs attempt at a diplomatic 2-state solution, and Israel has been in power for the past 70 years. Hamas and Hezbollah literally only exist because Israel is an expansionist apartheid state.
If Iran isn't interested in the genocide, why do they fund and arm Hamas and Hezbollah? And Israel supported Hamas as an opposition to the PLO, which was a major terrorist organization at the time. Do you think they intentionally created Hamas as an excuse to get their own people bombed?
Yes the Israeli government helped create Hamas to undermine any attempt at negotiation towards a two-state solution, and a few dead Jews are no biggie, in fact they died as martyrs to justify genocide, you know eggs and omelets, this isn't out of the ordinary behavior for genocidal regimes.
First off, you haven't answered my question about why Iran is funding Hamas and Hezbollah if they don't want genocide. Second, the PLO still exists. Supporting Hamas was a massive failure, but they didn't do it to kill their own people.
the same reason why the US funded Alquaeda.
secondly, that "PLO" is inconsequential and doesn't have any actual connection to the original PLO.
and lastly, you assume that extremists like the current Israeli government care about people's lives, and i very clearly stated that Israel supported Hamas to delegitimize the PA and avoid a two-state solution, and you don't have to take my word for it, the fucking Israeli prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu said this.
I can't find a credible source confirming that. And even if they did, that wouldn't make Iran's funding of Hamas and Hezbollah any less genocidal. Fair point on the origins of Hamas, though.
You can't find a credible source confirming the existence of operation cyclone? I'm sorry, but I think you REALLY need to learn a bit more about the Middle East before you start making statements like you have been here. if it's news to you that America is the main reason why Al Quaeda, the Taliban and to an extent modern Iran exist as they do.
Al-Qaeda themselves deny that they received funding from the US. Now, why is Iran funding genocidal terrorist groups acceptable? Can you answer that without saying "well the US is doing it too," or is this whole conflict tit-for-tat?
I'm sorry, but Operation Cyclone is a fact, it doesn't matter if Al-Qaeda say one thing or another, the US funded them, along with countless other Mujahideen in the late 70s to the early 90s.
And now you're also trying to bring morals into this like it has any relevance at all, Iran doesn't care about morals when they support groups like Hamas, Israel doesn't care when they slaughter tens of thousands of civilians in their open air camps and let another few thousand starve to death due to their blockade, America didn't care who died and who took power after the expulsion of the soviets from the region, etc...
Iran is supporting the enemies of Israel, not because they want to genocide every Jew or some shit like that, no they are doing it to weaken their local geopolitical rival. Israel supported Hamas for much the same reason, ironically, to weaken the PA, they didn't do it to cause some Israelis to die, but that was just something they were willing to spend, Because surprise, a government only cares about its citizens as so much as it harms their chances of staying in office, especially an extremist one like Israel.
This is modern international politics. This is the story of western involvement in the Middle East, and the nation state of Israel is the very definition of western involvement. all because the Brits, the French, and the Americans were just a wee tad bit less xenophobic than the Germans, but still didn't want Jews in their countries (but that's an entirely different can of worms)
Yes, Operation Cyclone is a fact, but Al-Qaeda literally said that they didn't receive US funding. They have zero reason to lie about that. Why are you so angry about it?
Morality is the entire point of the discussion. If morals don't matter, then it shouldn't matter how many innocent people die at the hands of Hamas - or the IDF. Both sides can do whatever they want and nobody gets to complain about what they do. That includes you, me, and everyone else on Lemmy. If morals do matter, then we need to think about the motivations and actions of every party involved.
Hamas and Hezbollah are both oppressive, extremist regimes internationally recognized as terrorist groups who are intent on destroying Israel. This is literally genocide. Since Iran is funding and arming them, Iran is complicit in their attacks on Israel. Iran is also internationally known as a state sponsor of terror. These are indisputable facts.
Iran only gets attacked by Israel when they start fights with Israel. Their motivation is simply the destruction of a nation that doesn't provoke them. The recent strikes were a response to Iran's sponsor of murderous terrorist groups attacking Israel - namely, Iran messed around and found out.
If morals don't matter, why are you so upset about Israel killing civilians? If morals do matter, how do you feel about Hamas expelling the previous government of Gaza in a civil war, using the entire Gaza strip as a human shield, raping and killing over a thousand innocent people, kidnapping over two hundred of them, and firing thousands of indiscriminate rockets into Israel?