this post was submitted on 08 Jul 2023
1042 points (93.9% liked)

Lemmy Shitpost

26790 readers
4975 users here now

Welcome to Lemmy Shitpost. Here you can shitpost to your hearts content.

Anything and everything goes. Memes, Jokes, Vents and Banter. Though we still have to comply with lemmy.world instance rules. So behave!


Rules:

1. Be Respectful


Refrain from using harmful language pertaining to a protected characteristic: e.g. race, gender, sexuality, disability or religion.

Refrain from being argumentative when responding or commenting to posts/replies. Personal attacks are not welcome here.

...


2. No Illegal Content


Content that violates the law. Any post/comment found to be in breach of common law will be removed and given to the authorities if required.

That means:

-No promoting violence/threats against any individuals

-No CSA content or Revenge Porn

-No sharing private/personal information (Doxxing)

...


3. No Spam


Posting the same post, no matter the intent is against the rules.

-If you have posted content, please refrain from re-posting said content within this community.

-Do not spam posts with intent to harass, annoy, bully, advertise, scam or harm this community.

-No posting Scams/Advertisements/Phishing Links/IP Grabbers

-No Bots, Bots will be banned from the community.

...


4. No Porn/ExplicitContent


-Do not post explicit content. Lemmy.World is not the instance for NSFW content.

-Do not post Gore or Shock Content.

...


5. No Enciting Harassment,Brigading, Doxxing or Witch Hunts


-Do not Brigade other Communities

-No calls to action against other communities/users within Lemmy or outside of Lemmy.

-No Witch Hunts against users/communities.

-No content that harasses members within or outside of the community.

...


6. NSFW should be behind NSFW tags.


-Content that is NSFW should be behind NSFW tags.

-Content that might be distressing should be kept behind NSFW tags.

...

If you see content that is a breach of the rules, please flag and report the comment and a moderator will take action where they can.


Also check out:

Partnered Communities:

1.Memes

2.Lemmy Review

3.Mildly Infuriating

4.Lemmy Be Wholesome

5.No Stupid Questions

6.You Should Know

7.Comedy Heaven

8.Credible Defense

9.Ten Forward

10.LinuxMemes (Linux themed memes)


Reach out to

All communities included on the sidebar are to be made in compliance with the instance rules. Striker

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
1042
Buffed af (lemmy.world)
submitted 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) by Eccehom@lemmy.world to c/lemmyshitpost@lemmy.world
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] Tedesche@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I don't disagree with the definition you quoted, I disagree with how you've applied it. As I said in my first comment:

Tbf you can be ogled and not objectified. The difference is that Thor absolutely is portrayed as a complex character with his own agency, or subjectivity.

By that definition, no female main character of a film ever has been objectified.

Having agency is not mutually exclusive with being dehumanized, sexualized, objectified, etc. The fact that Thor is shown in a great light throughout much of his films doesn't change the fact that he is regularly sexually objectified as well. Wonder Woman was objectified from the start, but that didn't stop her from also kicking ass. Lara Croft, Charlie's Angels, Sailor Moon. If you're going to claim that having agency means a character can't be objectified, you have to deny that all of those female protagonists were objectified. That's not in line with my understanding of both that quote you cited and the way I've seen the term used throughout my life. I think your emphasis on the word "mere" in the definition you quoted is misplaced. I don't think the quote's author meant it as literally as you seem to be taking it.

[–] DudePluto@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

So you think that a single scene portraying a character in a sexual light is sexual objectification?

Edit: Also, if you don't like the way I've worded the definition of objectification you can look at American philosopher Martha Nusbaum's:

  • Instrumentality – treating the person as a tool for another's purposes

  • Denial of autonomy – treating the person as lacking in autonomy or self-determination

  • Inertness – treating the person as lacking in agency or activity

  • Fungibility – treating the person as interchangeable with (other) objects

  • Violability – treating the person as lacking in boundary integrity and violable, "as something that it is permissible to break up, smash, break into."

  • Ownership – treating the person as though they can be owned, bought, or sold (such as slavery)

  • Denial of subjectivity – treating the person as though there is no need for concern for their experiences or feelings

[–] Tedesche@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

So you think that a single scene portraying a character in a sexual light is sexual objectification?

Yes, absolutely. In that scene, the character is being objectified. Who said a character needs to be objectified throughout an entire film without ever getting more nuanced treatment to be called "a character who has been objectified?" All of the definitions you've just taken the time to look up and type out fit with my understanding of what objectification is, I just don't understand why you seem to be requiring these characters to be in a constant state of objectification to receive the label, when it's patently obvious objectification can be done at some times and not others. Again, if you're going to make that a criteria, then plenty of female leads who were clearly objectified, aren't in your opinion, simply because they also agency, power, complexity, etc, in other moments.

[–] DudePluto@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

you seem to be requiring these characters to be in a constant state of objectification to receive the label

I'm not. It's about context. To treat objectification as some binary completely misses the point of objectification in the first place. As a facet of social philosophy, the idea has merit due to its context within culture and within the context of the media itself. Even if I agreed that a single sexual scene is objectifying (I don't) it would merely be in a semantic sense when (in the example of Thor) throughout the entire movie he is a multifaceted character who is clearly treated with respect by the creators.

Agency and subjectivity, in concerns to objectification, are so important because they're the whole point. When we assume the incredibly reductive definition of objectification as merely being acknowledged or treated as a sexual being we rob others of their ability to choose to embrace their sexuality. Thereby that definition of objectification is in itself objectifying.

Are you objectifying your partner by checking them out when they're unclothed? Are you objectifying your partner by having sex with them? Most likely not. How do I know? Because, presumably, your partner is exercising enthusiastic consent - they are exercising their subjectivity and agency within context of a healthy and respectful relationship.

To suggest a single scene fits a semantic definition of objectification ‐ as someone who had to study this stuff in university - completely misses the point of why objectification matters

Edit: you also seem to be relying on your past experience with this term for your understanding of it. I would advise against that. Many many many groups of people completely miss the point or misrepresent objectification