this post was submitted on 20 Oct 2024
225 points (91.2% liked)

politics

19097 readers
4131 users here now

Welcome to the discussion of US Politics!

Rules:

  1. Post only links to articles, Title must fairly describe link contents. If your title differs from the site’s, it should only be to add context or be more descriptive. Do not post entire articles in the body or in the comments.

Links must be to the original source, not an aggregator like Google Amp, MSN, or Yahoo.

Example:

  1. Articles must be relevant to politics. Links must be to quality and original content. Articles should be worth reading. Clickbait, stub articles, and rehosted or stolen content are not allowed. Check your source for Reliability and Bias here.
  2. Be civil, No violations of TOS. It’s OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It’s NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
  3. No memes, trolling, or low-effort comments. Reposts, misinformation, off-topic, trolling, or offensive. Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.
  4. Vote based on comment quality, not agreement. This community aims to foster discussion; please reward people for putting effort into articulating their viewpoint, even if you disagree with it.
  5. No hate speech, slurs, celebrating death, advocating violence, or abusive language. This will result in a ban. Usernames containing racist, or inappropriate slurs will be banned without warning

We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.

All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.

That's all the rules!

Civic Links

Register To Vote

Citizenship Resource Center

Congressional Awards Program

Federal Government Agencies

Library of Congress Legislative Resources

The White House

U.S. House of Representatives

U.S. Senate

Partnered Communities:

News

World News

Business News

Political Discussion

Ask Politics

Military News

Global Politics

Moderate Politics

Progressive Politics

UK Politics

Canadian Politics

Australian Politics

New Zealand Politics

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] sorval_the_eeter@lemmy.world 1 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

How many people was Israel holding prisoner indefinitely and without charge or access to any representation? I'll answer that for you, a bit over 12000.

How many of those killed on Oct 7 were killed by Israeli forces?

How many innocents have been raped or murdered in isralei custody?

How many dead journalists? Doctors? Aid workers? How many utilities workers (6 more mudered yesterday). Say what you want, each and every one of those deaths is a war crime.

How many attacks on the UN and UN workers?

Israel has far far dirtier hands than anyone else so I dont think you get to self righteously open with, "How many of these people do you think would be dead if Hamas hadn’t kidnapped them?".

Ridiculous nonsense.

[–] nonailsleft@lemm.ee 0 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

Those are all valid points, most of which I can agree with. But that doesn't mean that Hamas was helping us build a better world when they went on their killing and kidnapping spree. They wanted to restart the hostilities and that's not some noble goal that should make us lie about what they did or act like they're not responsible for the deaths of those they took.

[–] sorval_the_eeter@lemmy.world 1 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

agreed, but you put people in a murderous pressure cooker and keep turning up the heat and it'll expode. Thats part of the burden of being in charge. It speaks to motive and I asribe a lot of the blame to Israel for what happened on Oct 7. You dont oppress people to that level for 80 years and then act surprised when they lose their minds over it.

[–] nonailsleft@lemm.ee -1 points 3 weeks ago

Sure, but people that pull this argument almost always refuse to look at history from the Israeli side. I'm leaving out the pro-Arab arguments for this purpose but bear with me for what is always conveniently forgotten when lemmings say "they deserved it":

The Gaza strip only came under Israeli control in '67, so in reality the 80 years you mention are 56 years.

From '67 to '91, people could travel freely between Gaza and Israel. After the violence of the First Intifada, this changed, and Israel started requiring personal permits to make sure people coming to Israel had legitimate business there.

The escalations in violence led to the Oslo accords. Groups like Hamas and Islamic Jihad vowed to continue the violence until Israel was destroyed, and torpedoed the accords from their side with a series of deadly suicide bomb attacks on public buses in Israel. This led Israel to further tighten the border checkpoints.

Israel withdrew from within Gaza and following the 2007 takeover by Hamas, practically closed the border except for work and medical reasons.

The blockade mostly stopped ground attacks, but Hamas switched their MO to firing missiles. This led to Egypt and Israel progressively tightening their blockade to stop these weapons from being smuggled into Gaza. And Israel to work on a very expensive missile defense, and Israelis living within rocket distance to have to run to shelters almost daily.

And as the daily rocket attacks didn't bring any improvement for Hamas, they planned for the oct 7 attacks.

As I said the above story is onesided, but when I ask someone what else Israel should have done to stop Hamas from wanting to destroy them, the answer always boils down to "don't exist".