this post was submitted on 27 Sep 2024
64 points (91.0% liked)

politics

18930 readers
5331 users here now

Welcome to the discussion of US Politics!

Rules:

  1. Post only links to articles, Title must fairly describe link contents. If your title differs from the site’s, it should only be to add context or be more descriptive. Do not post entire articles in the body or in the comments.
  2. Articles must be relevant to politics. Links must be to quality and original content. Articles should be worth reading. Clickbait, stub articles, and rehosted or stolen content are not allowed. Check your source for Reliability and Bias here.
  3. Be civil, No violations of TOS. It’s OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It’s NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
  4. No memes, trolling, or low-effort comments. Reposts, misinformation, off-topic, trolling, or offensive.
  5. Vote based on comment quality, not agreement. This community aims to foster discussion; please reward people for putting effort into articulating their viewpoint, even if you disagree with it.
  6. No hate speech, slurs, celebrating death, advocating violence, or abusive language. This will result in a ban. Usernames containing racist, or inappropriate slurs will be banned without warning

We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.

All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.

That's all the rules!

Civic Links

Register To Vote

Citizenship Resource Center

Congressional Awards Program

Federal Government Agencies

Library of Congress Legislative Resources

The White House

U.S. House of Representatives

U.S. Senate

Partnered Communities:

News

World News

Business News

Political Discussion

Ask Politics

Military News

Global Politics

Moderate Politics

Progressive Politics

UK Politics

Canadian Politics

Australian Politics

New Zealand Politics

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] Soup@lemmy.cafe 6 points 4 hours ago (1 children)

Yeah… the simple fact that you just essentially accused her of not being against genocide illustrates how there not enough maturity on your end to carry this discussion.

There’s nuance to the topic, and if you’re throwing out accusations without bothering to understand what it is by now, it’s a futile effort to set you correct on the matter.

[–] Keeponstalin@lemmy.world -2 points 3 hours ago (1 children)

She and Biden are certainly not above sending weapons unconditionally to a country currently committing a genocide

And yes, Trump would be even worse

[–] Soup@lemmy.cafe 1 points 3 hours ago (1 children)

You need to learn how trade agreements work.

[–] Keeponstalin@lemmy.world -2 points 3 hours ago (1 children)

How about the Leahy Law and International Humanitarian Law

Amnesty

In a new research briefing submitted to the U.S. government today as part of the National Security Memorandum on Safeguards and Accountability with Respect to Transferred Defense Articles and Defense Services (NSM-20) process, Amnesty International USA details civilian deaths and injuries with U.S.-made weapons, as well as other cases that highlight an overall pattern of unlawful attacks by Israeli forces. The briefing also details practices by Israeli forces inconsistent with best practices for mitigating civilian harm and provides clear examples of the misuse of defense articles, the commission of torture, and the use of unlawful lethal force. Lastly, the briefing also details the denial of humanitarian assistance to the civilian population of Gaza.

“It’s shocking that the Biden administration continues to hold that the government of Israel is not violating international humanitarian law with U.S.-provided weapons when our research shows otherwise and international law experts disagree,” said Amanda Klasing, National Director for Government Relations with Amnesty International USA. “The International Court of Justice found the risk of genocide in Gaza is plausible and ordered provisional measures. President Biden must end U.S. complicity with the government of Israel’s grave violations of international law and immediately suspend the transfer of weapons to the government of Israel.”

“The evidence is clear and overwhelming: the government of Israel is using U.S.-made weapons in violation of international humanitarian and human rights law, and in a manner that is inconsistent with U.S. law and policy, said Klasing. “In order to follow U.S. laws and policies, the United States must immediately suspend any transfer of arms to the government of Israel.”

[–] Soup@lemmy.cafe 1 points 3 hours ago* (last edited 3 hours ago) (1 children)

How about you learn how trade agreements work, the legalities of said trade agreements, the relationship between America and Israel, and the war between Palestine and Israel that dates back before you ever gave a shit about either, or could point to either on a map- because its longer than the year you’ve been aware of it. I guarantee it.

Then look into the penalties for cancelling said agreements.

Then, delete your responses in embarrassment. This discussion ends here.

[–] Keeponstalin@lemmy.world -1 points 2 hours ago* (last edited 2 hours ago) (1 children)

I've read far more on it than you. Maybe stop defending Genocide

The Leahy Laws or Leahy amendments are U.S. human rights laws that prohibit the U.S. Department of State and Department of Defense from providing military assistance to foreign security force units that violate human rights with impunity

Origins of Zionism

Zionism is a settler colonialism project that was able to really start with the support of British Imperialism. Zionism as a political movement started with Theodore Herzl in the 1880s as a 'modern' way to 'solve' the 'Jewish Question' of Europe.

Adi Callai, an Israeli, does a great analysis of how Antisemitism has been weaponized by Zionism during its history.

Since at least the 1860's, Europe was increasingly antisemitic and hostile to Jewish people. Zionism was explicitly a Setter Colonialist movement and the native Palestinians were not considered People but Savages by the Europeans. While Zionist Colonization began before it, the Balfor Declaration is when Britain gave it's backing of the movement in order to 'solve' the 'Jewish Question' while also creating a Colony in the newly conquered Middle East after WWI in order to exhibit military force in the region and extract natural resources.

That's when Zionist immigration started to pick up, out of necessity for most as Europe became more hostile and antisemitic. That continued into and during WWII, European countries and even the US refused to expand immigration quotas for Jewish people seeking asylum. The idea that the creation of Israel is a reparation for Jewish people is an after-the-fact justification. While most Jewish immigrants had no choice and just wanted a place to live in peace, it was the Zionist Leadership that developed and implemented the forced transfer, ethnic cleansing, of the native population, Palestinians. Without any Occupation, Apartheid, and ethnic cleansing, there would not be any Palestinian resistance to it.

Herzl himself explicitly considered Zionism a Settler Colonialist project, Setter Colonialism is always violent. The difficulty in creating a democratic Jewish state in an area inhabited by people who are not Jewish, is that enough Palestinian people need to be 'Transferred' to have a demographic majority that is Jewish. Ben-Gurion explicitly rejected Secular Bi-national state solutions in favor of partition.

Quote

Zionism’s aims in Palestine, its deeply-held conviction that the Land of Israel belonged exclusively to the Jewish people as a whole, and the idea of Palestine’s “civilizational barrenness" or “emptiness” against the background of European imperialist ideologies all converged in the logical conclusion that the native population should make way for thenewcomers.

The idea that the Palestinian Arabs must find a place for themselves elsewhere was articulated early on. Indeed, the founder of the movement, Theodor Herzl, provided an early reference to transfer even before he formally outlined his theory of Zionist rebirth in his Judenstat.

An 1895 entry in his diary provides in embryonic form many of the elements that were to be demonstrated repeatedly in the Zionist quest for solutions to the “Arab problem ”-the idea of dealing with state governments over the heads of the indigenous population, Jewish acquisition of property that would be inalienable, “Hebrew Land" and “Hebrew Labor,” and the removal of the native population.

Ethnic Cleansing

https://lemmy.world/comment/12603755

Good Books on the History

  • Palestine: A Four Thousand Year History - Nur Masalha

  • The Concept of Transfer 1882-1948 - Nur Masalha

  • A History of Modern Palestine - Ilan Pappe

  • The Hundred Years' War on Palestine - Rashid Khalidi

  • The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine - Ilan Pappe

  • The 1967 Arab-Israeli War: Origins and Consequences - Avi Shlaim

  • The Biggest Prison on Earth: A History of the Occupied Territories - Ilan Pappe

  • The Gaza Strip: The Political Economy of De-development - Sara Roy

  • 10 Myths of Israel - Ilan Pappe (summery)

[–] Soup@lemmy.cafe 0 points 2 hours ago* (last edited 2 hours ago) (1 children)

Oh you guys are well known for your wall-of-text, pseudo-intellectual copypasta. I’m not reading a word of that nonsense. And no, this doesn’t mean you won- it just means you’re not wasting my time with your bullshit.

And again, the simple fact that you stoop to accusations of gEnOciDe sUpPorT to help bail you out of a disagreement means you have no clue what you’re taking about.

Seriously, if the admins made a rule to ban people for false accusations, the entire leftist population of lemmy would disappear.

Thanks for playing, but you’re dismissed.

[–] Keeponstalin@lemmy.world -2 points 2 hours ago* (last edited 2 hours ago) (1 children)
[–] Soup@lemmy.cafe 0 points 2 hours ago (1 children)

I thought I explained to you already, that the moment you knowingly falsely accused people including myself- of supporting genocide, that you lost every bit of respect or attention I would have for anything you have to say.

You’ve got nothing bud. Learn from this and stop with the bullshit accusations. If the mods banned for accusations of genocide, the entire population of leftist would disappear from lemmy.

Keep posting your YouTube videos and propaganda. I’m not looking at, reading, or watching any of it.

[–] Keeponstalin@lemmy.world 0 points 2 hours ago (1 children)

I never said you support genocide. You are defending the US sending weapons to one, while denying that it is one.

I'm firmly anti-genocide. I'm against any group of people committing genocide against any other group of people.

If you consider human rights organizations, genocide scholars, multiple Israeli Historians, and multiple western and Israeli News sources propaganda, sure.

[–] Soup@lemmy.cafe -1 points 1 hour ago (1 children)

Again, you hide behind your false accusations to keep others on the defensive. I know exactly how your type works.

Your bullshit accusations fall flat when pressed up against reality. And if I tried to call you out on it and validate any of it- there’ll be a wall of pseudo-intellectual bullshit text and more YouTube links- all the while completely dodging the fact that you have no evidence to support that ANYONE actually supports genocide.

And I stand firm on my own accusation that you probably hand no idea where Palestine was a year and a half ago.

So spare me the bullshit. I’m not buying it.

Do better and stop accusing people of shit they’re not doing.

[–] Keeponstalin@lemmy.world 0 points 1 hour ago (1 children)

Ok, I'm sorry I falsely accused you.

Which source do you think is bullshit? I don't understand

[–] Soup@lemmy.cafe 0 points 1 hour ago (1 children)

Nope. That’s not how this works. Learn from this and stop doing it to others. It’s bad-faith and to some, incredibly insulting.

Move forward and do better. You might find some good discussions ahead.

Take care.

[–] Keeponstalin@lemmy.world -1 points 1 hour ago (1 children)

Lol, ok. You just called everything bullshit for no reason. I think you're right, take care

[–] Soup@lemmy.cafe 0 points 1 hour ago* (last edited 1 hour ago)

So you had a chance to walk away from this on a good note. But you instead chose to prove your little apology was complete bullshit.

I was right to not bother with your pseudo intellect bullshit. You’re out of gas bud.

Thanks for playing, but you lose.