politics
Welcome to the discussion of US Politics!
Rules:
- Post only links to articles, Title must fairly describe link contents. If your title differs from the site’s, it should only be to add context or be more descriptive. Do not post entire articles in the body or in the comments.
Links must be to the original source, not an aggregator like Google Amp, MSN, or Yahoo.
Example:
- Articles must be relevant to politics. Links must be to quality and original content. Articles should be worth reading. Clickbait, stub articles, and rehosted or stolen content are not allowed. Check your source for Reliability and Bias here.
- Be civil, No violations of TOS. It’s OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It’s NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
- No memes, trolling, or low-effort comments. Reposts, misinformation, off-topic, trolling, or offensive. Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.
- Vote based on comment quality, not agreement. This community aims to foster discussion; please reward people for putting effort into articulating their viewpoint, even if you disagree with it.
- No hate speech, slurs, celebrating death, advocating violence, or abusive language. This will result in a ban. Usernames containing racist, or inappropriate slurs will be banned without warning
We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.
All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.
That's all the rules!
Civic Links
• Congressional Awards Program
• Library of Congress Legislative Resources
• U.S. House of Representatives
Partnered Communities:
• News
view the rest of the comments
This statement is why no one likes vegans. You're demanding that someone adhere to your believe system. It doesn't matter how well you can argue your rationale, the demand itself is the reason.
It's the same level of insufferableness as Christian Warriors.
Not OP, but setting aside animal rights for a moment, the rational given here is effectively an argument against all social movements
Saying that one should not ever push or nuge someone towards what you think is right regardless of how well argued or how much of a point that you have
My point is that they aren't pushing or nudging, they are making a demand
Do most/many social movements not do the all three at the same time? For instance, demanding that voting rights acts should be passed while simultaneously trying to nudge people and politicians to support it
Veganism isn't a social movement. It's a culture movement closer to religion than anything. It has special dietary and lifestyle dogma that one must adhere to in order to be a member of the group.
It merely attempts to leverage existing social movements to push its much larger agenda, as any religion does.
I think that's misunderstanding the goals of those who advocate for it. Animal rights is the movement. Veganism is advocated as a means to achieve that end by stopping the support of the harm within animal agriculture & factory farming
So, like, a few years ago, I had this co-worker. She was vegan in the “annoying” way. Most vegans? You wouldn’t know it unless you knew them. In any case that wasn’t her.
She wasted no time telling everyone that they weren’t allowed to bring meat into the office- that the smell of it made her ill, and so, we had to be vegan to.
Well. Unfortunately for her that’s not a reasonable accommodation. Not that we didn’t try to make some effort (not microwaving food when she’s in the break room, etc,)(to be fair, our attempt to be reasonable ended after about the third sign declaring the office meat-free.)
In any case she waged a small war on it over the course of a few days- mostly hanging up passive aggressive signs and being snippy whenever some one walked by with anything even vaguely meat like, (including, in point of fact leftover mushroom stew that is, in fact, vegan. It’s why I think she was full of shit about the smell making her ill.)
Things came to a head when she decided it was a good idea to to go into the break room fridge and toss everything into the garbage. (Including another coworkers veg fried rice with crispy tofu,)
Now, do you think that anyone in that office was persuaded to go vegan?
Or do you imagine that HR fired her ass for being an overbearing, condescending bitch- and a thief as well?
I’ll give you a hint: the steaks my boss got and I grilled for lunch were delicious.
The point being: food is integral to culture, and in many ways, part of how we socialize. It’s not something that you can just demand we change and not expect people to react well to.
Making arguments are all well and good, but they won’t really persuade anyone either. You’re literally talking about changing a few millennia of cultural norms.
Sure we can have that discussion, but really, if you have to get preachy, you have to get demanding or “dramatic” like my ex-coworker…. All it does is makes people remember that rather than the actual impactful points of the discussion.
You know. You’re missing the point?
Your methods do not work. You know that. You can see the results.
All people are going to remember from your interactions is that you were a preachy jerk.
And it’s yet another interaction that reinforces the image that all vegans are preachy jerks- even if it is far from the truth.
You are literally hurting your cause.
More people are going vegan than ever before as 88 million have went vegan. The chauvinists said the same thing towards those “crazy” feminists and abolitionists.
I will not be kind to those who are animal abusers. Stop it and be better. You did not address the examples of animal abuse I mentioned as that is permissible in your eyes.
it doesn't seem to be effective at reducing or even stopping the growth of the meat industry
https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/meat-production-tonnes?tab=chart&country=~OWID_WRL
I don’t need to address anything.
You don’t need to either. That’s your choice.
But once again- you do seem to want to persuade people…. And I’m trying to help you do that. You do you, but you’re not going to get very far.
You're not vegan so you're not the best person to ask for persuasion, I would rather ask Ed Winters or Melanie Joy for advice.
Though its good you're somewhat supportive ;)
My comrade in veganism: this is not the way. Kindness is the only way your message will be heard. If Daryl Davis (a black man) can convince hundreds of KKK members to leave the organization by befriending them and forging relationships, sometimes over years, then you can tone it down and be kind to someone who doesn't share your views and wants to eat a cheeseburger. Doesnt make them "right", but your approach just makes you insufferable in the eyes of people you don't agree with, which is almost everyone. Trust me, I've been doing it for decades and you are not setting a good example for the chill vegans out there. Calm down, love people regardless of their differences, there is enough division in the world. Do not turn your ethics into religious fundamentalism. You can control your behavior and you can be a good ambassador. In short: don't be a smug asshole that thinks they are superior for any reason.
most people feel the same way.
you should give a trigger warning when you link gore
comparing slaves to animals is what slavers do.
Unfortunately, there are also vegans who insist raising bees for their honey "harms" beings literally too dumb to feel pain. So their religion loses points by sharing a name with the more illogical of their members.
Also bees can and will fuck off if not taken care of properly. They can just fly away, they arent caged or something. The bees being harmed to make honey is literally the plot of bee movie, do you want to be associated with fucke Jerry Seinfeld?
Voting rights =/= dietary choices.
One thing is others imposing a lack of autonomy on others (not allowing certain people to vote)
The other thing is a personal choice that no one is stopping you from making.
Source
Source 2
Source 3
your third claim is going to take some reading for me, but I would bet dollars to donuts that I'm going to find out that they're counting greenhouse gas emissions from the feed that is given to animals, which makes sense if you don't think about it too long. but most of what we need to feed to animals is actually agricultural waste product, so by feeding it to animals, we are conserving, not producing.
your first claim is actually just fluff. The actual research paper does not make that same claim.
your second claim is literally expired. The academy of nutrition and dietetics does not currently have a position about vegetarian or vegan diets.
Obviously the biggest way to reduce impact is to not exist, and certainly not reproduce.
Mind, I'm not pointing that phrase at you, I'm speaking about any human.
I like how when someone basically says "Don't be the vegan at the party", you double down with the thing that most pushes buttons.
It's good at removing doubt.
remember that Bad Religion song, 10 in 2010? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NY6YQJda8EM The numbers weren't accurate, but that's way better messaging than throwing up a wall of text and science, oh so gross