this post was submitted on 06 Jul 2023
4294 points (97.2% liked)
Piracy: ꜱᴀɪʟ ᴛʜᴇ ʜɪɢʜ ꜱᴇᴀꜱ
54716 readers
618 users here now
⚓ Dedicated to the discussion of digital piracy, including ethical problems and legal advancements.
Rules • Full Version
1. Posts must be related to the discussion of digital piracy
2. Don't request invites, trade, sell, or self-promote
3. Don't request or link to specific pirated titles, including DMs
4. Don't submit low-quality posts, be entitled, or harass others
Loot, Pillage, & Plunder
📜 c/Piracy Wiki (Community Edition):
💰 Please help cover server costs.
 |
 |
|---|---|
| Ko-fi | Liberapay |
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
I seriously don't understand the mental gymnastics here. We pirate because we'd rather get something for free than pay for it. There are certainly cases when someone is forced to pirate a product due to copyright restrictions in their country but that isn't the case most of the time for people like us who pirate. We're just selfish and there's noting wrong with admitting that.
The mental gymnastics are in response to copyright holders' gymnastics. They remove content, relocate it, put it behind tiered subscriptions, or sometimes effectively delete it from all legal avenues after owners/subscribers paid for it. So if paying for a subscription isn't owning it, as described in Amazon's fine print for example, then what do you do? It's a long-term rental subject to removal upon any licensing transfers. Sure, we get greedy once set up, but if legal options don't actually offer you any legal ownership due to legal gymnastics, then yeah, I'll do the mental gymnastics right back at them.
It's their IP, they can distribute it in any way they see fit. It doesn't entitle you to steal it just because you disagree with how it's distributed.
If you really believe that then why are you on a piracy forumn?
There's nuance in the pirate ranks my dude. Some people don't really believe in property rights at all, some people think that piracy is acceptable when you can't afford/obtain the original, some just like to try before they buy.
Some think it's ok for them to steal but not for them to be stolen from.
Edit: dont shoot the messenger
Hey, if you can't be consistent at least be honest.
I DO WHAT I WANT CAUSE A PIRATE IS FREE
Primarily because I pirate the majority of media I consume.
How can it be stealing if downloading doesn’t take the content away from anyone else.
Do you strictly have to deprive others of content to be stealing? Taking away potential revenue, stealing someone's design, etc. are also forms of stealing. If a gaming company lifts some art someone shared and put it in their game without compensating the artist or getting permission, would that not be stealing? They're not taking away that content from anyone else - so is that ok?
Pretty sure that you do have to intend to permanently deprive for it to be theft. What you're describing is copyright infringement. Whether that's morally right is a different question but it's not stealing.
Is it though?
Theft in Scots Law is defined as the wrongful appropriation of the property of another, with the intention of permanently depriving the other person of his or her possession.
source
This is just another example of mental gymnastics when it comes to piracy.
You’re getting downvoted but you’re 100% correct.
There's people on both sides of the scale here.
I used to pirate stuff because I couldn't afford it or because I prioritized spending my money elsewhere since I could get stuff for free. Then as I got a job, I could afford to pay for lots of things and legal options became more convenient than piracy, so I just stopped pirating.
Now I'm back on the ship because pirating has become more convenient than subscribing to a bunch of different fragnented and anti-consumer services just to access a handful of content.
Some people just want shit for free (which is ok, been there), some others value service and convenience first and foremost.
Not judging you for your reasons, but you don't speak for everyone so calm down with the "we" pronoun.
I really couldn't care if people judged me for my reasons, I pirate because I'm selfish just like the vast majority of people who pirate. But if you're living in a country where content restrictions or regional pricing isn't an issue, or if you're downloading something that isn't in circulation anymore then you're in all likelihood pirating because you're selfish.
Could I get a source for vast majority?
Seriously I don’t understand all the mental gymnastics on an anonymous internet forum, just admit it was easy to steal and you didn’t feel like paying for it lol
People will feel more guilty about piracy than speeding, even though the latter kills thousands of people every year.
But also, are you absolutely sure it’s theft for me to walk into a Hertz and take a vehicle? Like if they’re not in the business of selling vehicles then surely it can’t be theft to take one…
Your reasoning touches on a deep philosophical concept: what is "ownership"?
I'd say owning something is easy enough when you can't duplicate it (I can't just copy your car or house to save money). Duplication, however, means the ownership is technically the abstraction of "intellectual property", which worked fine when duplicating cost money and people paid money for it.
However, the very essence of using a computer on a network is simply using copies. You're not reading this as I write it, but a copy your computer downloaded.
It's more about ownership of a copyright than ownership of an actual item though. There are issues with our copyright system that could be addressed (DMCA should be launched into the sun), but overall it's the lesser of two evils. A society without any copyright enforcement simply wouldn't produce the kinds of outstanding media that we're all used to. Movies today cost hundreds of millions to make, and without a sufficient profit motive, no investor would be willing to front that kind of cash. Even crowdfunding, which I actually feel is scammier than private investors, has never come close to raising the capital needed for a major film or TV show. The system only works so long as a critical mass of consumers are actually paying for most media.
Personally I'm fine with paying netflix for their content, with the understanding that I'm licensing its use on my television, not purchasing the work outright. I don't see that as any kind of scam. I mean I still pirate too, but now that I'm at a point in life where I can afford to contribute, I try to. I have friends that are actors and writers and so I don't mind paying to ensure a healthy ecosystem of content creators moving forward. But if you make it too difficult or inconvenient for me to access the media I want, then to the high seas I sail, and I'm fine with that too lol
With most modern software you paying for the on-going development and all the network infrastructure to send you your copy. Same way that you pay to use the bowling alley.
I live in Japan. I could wave money around begging for a copyright owner to take it, but they refuse to take it and I can't access the content.