This is such an insightful way to articulate the issue. The conversation mostly revolves around individuals ("men are bad"). This is one of the few times that men are talked about in a way that acknowledges the system at play, that they are a product of an environment and society that has shaped them a certain way.

I've lost the podcast source that talked about "there is no good way to be a man currently". Even for someone who wants to be a better man, there aren't role models or celebrations of " good manliness". There's no positive road map, only a list of "don'ts" and stereotypes to avoid.

[–] leisesprecher@feddit.org 35 points 2 weeks ago (8 children)

We, as a society, are still trapped within the "feminist revolution", there's fighting going on and no new normal emerged.

Both sides are ripped apart by two often contradicting sets of expectations, the traditional role and the progressive role.

What makes it so hard for a lot of men is, that it's a willful surrender of privileges. Men lost a ton of privileges over the last decades and it takes a bit of reflection to understand that these privileges were never legitimate in the first place. Instead, they frame women's rights as weakness, because it directly contradicts their narrative of a strong man.

And that also reflects on women, to put it extremely bluntly, he's expected to pay for dinner, but she still wants equal pay. It will take decades to sort all of that out.

[–] KillingTimeItself@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 2 weeks ago (5 children)

What makes it so hard for a lot of men is, that it’s a willful surrender of privileges. Men lost a ton of privileges over the last decades and it takes a bit of reflection to understand that these privileges were never legitimate in the first place. Instead, they frame women’s rights as weakness, because it directly contradicts their narrative of a strong man.

the important distinction here is that these privileges were the reason that men did what they did. Without them now men don't really have an overall driving force through life. Without the expectation of "being a strong man" they literally have nothing to live for in society.

[–] JovialMicrobial@lemm.ee 7 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

Being a good human being is an option for everyone.
And I know this is from a kids cartoon, but Uncle Iroh from Airbender embodies benevolent masculinity pretty well. If we want children and young men to be socialized better, a good place to start is with our media depicting more characters like that.

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