There is no way that will happen after Ukraine has kept refusing negotiations and the imperial core jumped on the occasion to ban Russia from everything, from their participation in transnational gov panels to cat shows of all things.

Russia has committed too much in this war, and there is too much in play here, to just say "nevermind guys, we'll just be going home now lol". Don't be an idealist.

[+] kujaw@lemmy.ml -8 points 2 years ago (1 children)

First of all, it was Russia that rejected any negotiations from the beginning. You can clearly hear it in the tapes between Macron and Putin - Zelensky asked Macron to tall to Putin about negotiations. He just wanted to innvade and annex neighboring country and didn't want to negotiate.

Another thing is that there's no negotiations with invader now, when we see that RF is slowly loosing and tries to take powerplants etc. as hostages only to harass everybody, not just Ukraine. And if Ukraine doesn't wan to negotiate now I understand their stance.

I agree with you, Russia has committed too much to just fall back. But hopefully, the aggresor will be driven out soon.

[–] CriticalResist8@lemmygrad.ml 10 points 2 years ago

This wouldn't make any sense if it was true. It's not true, because Russia sent negotiators in the very beginning of the war (one week in), and Ukraine refused to show up. Then Ukraine came back with outrageous demands (like taking territory that's part of Russia). Negotiations are a normal part of warfare, where both parties try to end a costly, difficult invasion and get away with as much as they can. That's why they're called negotiations and not demands.

Zelensky saying he will only negotiate when "Russian forces have been pushed back to their Feb. 24 positions" shows he is not serious about negotiating. He obviously isn't, because he doesn't actually control his country -- he's just a puppet to the fascists, who themselves hope for NATO clemency. There's a video of him from before the war trying to get his own soldiers to stop shelling Donbass and they just outright refuse in his face.

It doesn't make any sense that Russia wouldn't negotiate because the goal of war is to get the enemy to execute your will. Why would Russia not send negotiators to get what they want in the beginning of the war, thus avoiding a costly invasion?

What is the goal then, Russia will not negotiate anything and just... rampage through the Ukrainian countryside until the Zelensky gov tells Putin "okay, this is all yours now"? Of course there has to be negotiations even to annex a country.

An annexation is on the table at this point. At least we don't disagree on that. It's on the table because like I said, too much has been committed here to just pull out, even if the original aims were to liberate the Donbass and compel Ukraine to respect the Minsk 2 Agreements. Russia has been excluded from international markets, which I believe to be an act by NATO to evolve the war to a higher stage and put annexation on the table.