this post was submitted on 16 Aug 2024
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I hate Epic and won't buy any of their games but I respect that they've taken Apple, Google, and Samsung to the cleaners over this shit.
But they didn't. Let's look at the facts:
So you have one company that sued two others to be able to launch their store there, one of the companies wasn't preventing them from doing so, and they lost their lawsuit against the other one. Completely unrelated to that, the EU forced that second company to allow third-party stores. Conclusion, Epic's lawsuit has nothing to do with this announcement.
Yes, lets.
I've already addressed this in other replies below. This goes beyond the existence of app store and into the abusive nature of them. Here's some light reading for you.
You're just repeating yourself. Number go up, I guess?
Your parents should have taught you when you were 5 that just because other people are doing it doesn't make it okay.
Well the EU picked up where the US failed. That's why they have an app store. But Epic continues the fight regardless. As mentioned elsewhere, they won their lawsuit against Google with the state of California stating Google's app store is indeed a monopoly. Epic is responsible for both.
Highly doubt that that is a coincidence. It has everything to do with Epic.
You're repeating yourself again.
Conclusion, you are wrong.
Irrelevant, the news from OP is that secondary stores are now allowed on Android and iOS. Not defending Google or anything, but whatever abuse they did is irrelevant to this point. The fact remains, other stores exist on Android.
No, 2 is a conclusion from 1. You didn't even got through 1 properly trying to bring whatever bad things Google might do with their power, fact 1 is there are other stores on Android, fact 2, which is a conclusion derived from fact 1 is that Epic could have released their own store there regardless of the lawsuit. This takes Android off the picture from the remaining of the discussion.
That's not the point, if someone claims that a company is using their monopoly power to force a high tax on developers, but the tax is the same on every other store regardless of being monopoly or not then their argument is bullshit. Why do you think developers pay 30% to Steam? If they thought Steam didn't provided value they would just not release there. But they do, therefore 30% is not abusive, it's what developers are willing to pay for the service.
No they didn't, DMA is an extension of GDPR and P2B Regulations, it has nothing to do with Epic.
Like I told you in your other reply, laws as complex as DMA don't get written in a short amount of time, it's impossible for these to be related.
Again, I'm drawing a conclusion from a point before. From 1 you have 2 which means the lawsuit has nothing to do with Android, and from 5 you have 6 which means their lawsuit had nothing to do with iOS either, since those are the two platforms being discussed we have the overall conclusion that the lawsuits and this announcement are unrelated.
You haven't disproven any of the propositions, nor found any logical error with the conclusion from those propositions (in fact both times you thought the conclusion was just a repetition of the proposition before). Just claiming I'm wrong is not gonna cut it, unless you have any facts that counter anything I said my conclusion stands.
Nothing prevented Epic from opening their own Appstore on Android. Heck, Amazon runs their own you can load on your Android phone if you want.
None of that means Google wasn't exploiting anticompetitive measures to ensure everyone has to pay their exorbitant 30% tax in their app store. At least, that's what the State of California determined when Epic took them to court.
I'm pointing out that what the article is showing (Epic opening their own app store) was always an option for them. The court ruling on Google's app store didn't enable that. It was always an option. This isn't true on the Apple side, though. A non-Apple app store on iOS would be a significant change.
I know all of that. I'm not sure why you replied to me though.
Your comment was:
The article is talking about a new app store. A new app store wasn't part of "this shit". Yes, Epic sued and got changes to Google's app store pricing, but that has nothing to do with this article's topic. I'm not that invested in this conversation, but you asked why I responded and that's why. I hope you have a fantastic day!
Read better.
Oh my, this is embarrassing for you. Look at my very first line in my quote:
"Nothing prevented Epic from opening their own Appstore on Android. "
So is this where I tell you to "read better"?
Oh my, this is embarrassing for you. Look at your previous comment:
It very clearly is. Read better.
My whole thread was specifically about Android. You know what? You're looking to salvage a victory out of this based upon pedantry. If you're that bad off that you need that, go ahead and take the win if you can call it that. I hope your circumstances get better in the future.
This isn't your thread, it's mine. You replied to me. My comment was clearly about Apple (among others). The OP was about Apple. There's nothing I need to "salvage". Have a nice day.
The iOS version also has nothing to do with their lawsuit of Apple, they lost that one. It's due to an unrelated law in the EU, which is why this is only available in the EU.
There's absolutely no way it is a coincidence and unrelated. Epic drew attention to it. EU followed through.
The EU has had digital legislations since long before that lawsuit. Or do you think Epic is also responsible for GDPR?.
So you think that the European commission saw a lawsuit in a different country and decided "We need that" then rushed to write the entirety of DMA in less than 4 months. If you think DMA and Epic lawsuits are related the most possible order of events is that Epic saw what was going to be passed in the EU and decided to suit Apple and Google to get the same in the USA
...are you not aware that GDPR and DMA are not the same thing?
Never claimed they were, I pointed out that DMA is not in a void, EU has multiple laws in that direction, DMA is an extension of GDPR.
I think it's pretty clear you were implying they were somehow related when they're clearly not.
No it is not.
Somehow related is pretty far away from claiming they are the same thing.
First of all they're both consumer protection laws related to IT, which was my point that EU already has a track of enforcing these kinds of law, and it has nothing to do with one irrelevant lawsuit in the US.
But also GDPR is a law to protect customers data, after it was enforced and people saw the big companies were not untouchable other laws started to be discussed to further regulate them. Parallel to this the DSM was being enforced, part of which has the P2B Regulations, which regulates unfair contracts and trading practices. After both of these came into effect a new law, which is essentially the child of these two, started being discussed which would regulate how large companies corner the market and other abusive practices. To think that this law has nothing to do with GDPR but instead is because of a random lawsuit some random company lost in some random country is ridiculous.
So your source is just a gut feeling? Back it up
My source is basic logic and reason, what's yours?
Someone already sent you the link to DMA and you responded with “coincidence”. Your logic has failed you
I don't need a link to the DMA. I've known about it since before it existed. If you think it is coincidence that it was created shortly after the Epic v Apple lawsuit while addressing the exact same problem, your logic has failed you. Still waiting on your source.
No that’s the point, it’s not a coincidence. Epic games had nothing to do with the rulings of a foreign government. I’m glad we can agree.
I don't think you understand the meaning of "coincidence".
A bit hypocritical given you’ve been the one using “coincidence” as a source. What I’m trying to tell you is there is not any documented proof for what you are saying - fuck, maybe you’re right. But you can’t go around spouting “facts” because you find the timing too coincidental. There has been no mention of Epic Games in any court documentation regarding Apple’s violation of DMA.
I don't think you understand the meaning of "hypocritical".
I never said it was a "fact". Just an incredibly obvious observation.
Nor is there any for what you're saying. Proof for either doesn't exist but only an irrational person is going to look at the correlation staring you in the face and say it's a coincidence (which is in fact what you're doing, BTW).
Ah it’s clear you can’t be communicated with. See you in another life!
Glad we had this little chat!
The state of California also determined that 30% tax was okay for Apple to charge, so they're not very objective with their determinations.
One was a jury trial and the other wasn't. Google had plenty of records of their internal communications but Apple had a different practice. This article by The Verge does a decent job at highlighting the differences.
You mean the same fee every store under the sun charges? Epic is the only one that doesn't, and they pretty much just do it for marketing.
They are not the good guys. They're Elon Musk before he took the mask off, though it slips through now and then.
Yes, that one.
Didn't say they were.
Don't know what mask you speak of. Timmy has never had one.
So you just repeat his talking points because you believe in him?
...huh?
Something he repeats ad nauseum.
I find it hard to believe someone so invested in this outcome knows nothing about it.
Just because he says it doesn't instantly make it false...It's absolutely true.
I don't know who or what this sentence is supposed to be referencing. No one doesn't know anything about this. We all seem to understand what the problem is except you.
Yeah. I've had Amazon's for a very long time. There was never anything preventing epic from making their own store. Epic was trying to make Google play store host the download for the epic game store.
It's a bit more than that, though. Epic lost their lawsuit against Apple but they won theirs against Google.
Google was colluding with OEMs to stifle competition on Android, and that practice was determined to be anticompetitive. Sure you could always jump through the Google-mandated hoops and install a third-party store, but then you could also always install other browsers on Windows even when Internet Explorer was the default, and that was also determined to be anticompetitive.
Which is silly, since Apple has gone beyond colluding, and simply blocks everything they can within their walled garden. You've never even had the option to install other app stores or sideload apps on an iPhone. Meanwhile, you've always been able to on Android. For the past several years it will even hold your hand and highlight/show you what options you need to allow to do it within the OS.
I agree, but that's what the courts decided. IANAL but I'm assuming it hinges on the pretense that Android is supposed to be an open ecosystem where partners and OEMs are given fair treatment, while iOS is a top-to-bottom "product" controlled by a single company that makes their own business arrangements.
In short, Apple deciding to block Epic from having their own app store, fine. Google bribing/coercing Android OEMs to prioritize the Play Store and not pre-install or facilitate the Epic Store, not fine.
I don't think the courts would have cared if Google locked down their own Pixel phones to block out Epic, but it's the act of throwing their weight around as the OS provider to their business partners (the OEMs) that they took issue with.
Yep it's so true that they did it many years ago. This journo must be on drugs.
The only good thing came out of Fortnite is the money to fund those lawsuits.