Ask Lemmy
A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions
Please don't post about US Politics. If you need to do this, try !politicaldiscussion@lemmy.world
Rules: (interactive)
1) Be nice and; have fun
Doxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. Please familiarize yourself with them
2) All posts must end with a '?'
This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?
3) No spam
Please do not flood the community with nonsense. Actual suspected spammers will be banned on site. No astroturfing.
4) NSFW is okay, within reason
Just remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either !asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world or !asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com.
NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].
5) This is not a support community.
It is not a place for 'how do I?', type questions.
If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to Lemmy.world Support or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.
Reminder: The terms of service apply here too.
Partnered Communities:
Logo design credit goes to: tubbadu
view the rest of the comments
Cat's in urban areas that aren't socialized are always skittish. It's about not being socialized to humans are a critical age. The areas that you are finding "friendly" strays are where people abandon former pets. Former pets were socialized at the critical age and want human contact.
Basically you are describing areas with shitty humans as areas with superior humans.
You say that like those cats aren't just on walks around the block.
If your little murder floof is on walkabout, it's either unplanned or you need to re-examine things. If you want fewer mosquitoes, keep your cats inside 100% -- that's almost a binary choice.
The world has changed; and any cat outside should be seen as the indication of a problem. Also, depending where you are - eg k2k - the coyotes or similar indigenes will handle things in ways you don't want.
Cats still do well outdoors in rural areas. Disneyworld is proof of this. Every night, Disneyworld fills to the brim with cats, and the park decided to use this to their advantage to keep mice out. They don't live as long living their life outdoors, but it's not urgently harmful to them either.
I, like many, will have to disagree. This is just my personal opinion though.
One of our cats we let out whenever she wants, she desires being outside and I can't seem to steal that freedom from her. I know it's more dangerous outside, but she was a stray for the first couple years of her life and is probably more aware of the dangers than most people. Now she mainly just sleeps in a chair on our porch watching birds.
Our other kitty has always had a home and loves outside, but only goes out on a leash (before her I honestly didn't think a cat would use a leash).
I think the main issue with outdoor cats isn't even the danger posed to the cats; it's the danger the cats pose to everything else. Numerous species — especially birds — have gone extinct specifically because of cats. It's one thing to have a barn cat or mouser, but cats wreak havoc on ecosystems. And iirc, indoor cats have a lot longer life expectancy than outdoor cats. I understand wanting to give freedom to our furry friends, but cats hunt for fun and are basically murderous little fluffballs to anything smaller or similar size than them.
Recent numbers I've seen estimate domestic and feral cats kill billions of song birds annually. As you mentioned avian insectivores help keep flying insect numbers in balance. Cats also predate beneficial reptiles and amphibians. Even the mice, gophers and other small mammals cats kill fill a niche in a habitat, killing them can weaken the food web.
The majority of human beings live in urban areas where its ridiculously unsafe for cats. In the city every outdoor cat is either abandoned or feral and neither particularly long for this world.
Outdoor cats live about 3-5 years, indoor cats live 10-20. Again shitty humans.
Atomic family has amassed 60 years total working SPCA/Vet/etc . They can all confirm it's that bad.
That, as you implied, depends on the environment. In a safe rural setting, which are not as depopulated as one would think (would people complain of rural America for example if it was a drop in the bucket), it's more like one to three years less than the average indoor cat.
Good think we don't have to make up the answers when we can look them up!
14% of Americans live in rural settings
https://www.ers.usda.gov/webdocs/publications/102576/eib-230.pdf
(warning large pdf) search for text 14 percent its on page 4.
https://www.petmd.com/cat/care/can-indoor-cat-be-part-time-outdoor-cat
It really is very very bad. rural areas may have less traffic but they also have more wild animals
There are whole US states that are nothing but rural. 14% definitely doesn't sound right, unless they have a high bar for what's considered rural. Wild animals are definitely a thing, but only a few of the rarer ones to find in a quiet neighborhood setting are going to desire a fight with a cat. Dogs are more likely to meet their end outside because they're the ones that go around picking the fights with other animals.
It's weird that you respond to actual information based on what your feels tell you.
There are in fact not. Smaller states still have cities and people tend to be concentrated around those cities ND the very definition of a shit hole state with nothing in it. 85% of its meager population lives in the metro areas surrounding its 5 biggest (for ND) cities. The other 15% live in the other 99% of the state.
Lets look at a population density map to better visualize this. https://www.census.gov/library/visualizations/2021/geo/population-distribution-2020.html
Outdoor cats just don't live near as long on average. This isn't about your feels its about reality its about stats.
Regarding the safety of rural areas. Dogs kill cats, cats kill other cats, raccoons kill cats, eagles and other predatory birds kill cats, cars kill cats, eating poisoned nuisance animals kills cats, coyotes kill cats.
Feels, huh?
Concentrations =/= ceasing to be rural
I'm from VT, we're rural enough in the sense that our "cities" have an average of a few thousand people in them, challenging your notion/definition here.
I didn't say cats don't shorten their lives by being outside, I was saying it's not as significant a game changer as you make it out to be.
Except for dogs which are typically kept from being outside, of all the animals mentioned there, coyotes and eagles and other predatory birds are rare in town limits and raccoons don't attack for no reason unless it has rabies, which itself is rare. So is poisoned food since it became illegal to poison potential prey animals (how many animals do you see dead after having eaten poisoned prey). Cars will be a threat if the street is busy and the driver doesn't stop, but that's not necessitated. Silliest of all is you saying cats kill other cats, which happens rarely as there is no reason.
The so-called 15% who have been doing this for ages without being swarmed about it by the feds can attest this is normal and does not have the impact those who claim to speak for the 85% claim it has.
Quora is a very very bad source. You'll find threads there in support of the flat earth! It's as real as asking your neighbors knowing that none of them actually know and everyone is just repeating their own anecdotes. I on the other hand quoted UC Davis Veterinary Medicine. All the threats I mentioned are in fact very real.
You offer fanciful counters like the cars won't be a problem if the driver stops! You are just trying to justify your outdoor cat which will die sooner than mine.
What cat? Rural traffic doesn't follow your expectations, which you seem to have a lot of. Cars are not some constant flow here as they are in the cities, in fact kids here sometimes play frisbee over the road. Define what constitutes a good source to quote and I will quote one in my defense that fits your definition, because the big deal everyone is making it out to be is exaggerated.