this post was submitted on 05 Jul 2024
124 points (91.3% liked)

World News

38979 readers
3472 users here now

A community for discussing events around the World

Rules:

Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.

We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.

All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.


Lemmy World Partners

News !news@lemmy.world

Politics !politics@lemmy.world

World Politics !globalpolitics@lemmy.world


Recommendations

For Firefox users, there is media bias / propaganda / fact check plugin.

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/media-bias-fact-check/

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
 

An Iranian monarchist who filmed herself pulling the headscarves off Iranians in London fled to Israel after UK police announced they were investigating her.

The woman allegedly responsible is an Iranian pro-Israel activist called Bahar Mahroo, who later closed her Instagram and TikTok accounts and claimed she found the videos online. However, a reserve image search found no sources for the video, other than her Twitter account.

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] geneva_convenience@lemmy.ml 3 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (3 children)

It's a reference to Redditors circlejerking about the same picture of an Iranian woman wearing a bikini in the 1960s. The rest of the country was not dressed like that at all but it makes for a good propaganda story about how the west liberated Iran by overthrowing their government.

For more information https://www.reddit.com/r/Izlam/comments/8tpg4l/imagine_thinking_you_understand_the_history_of_a/

And no Muslim that practices the faith will tell you wearing a Hijab is optional for Muslim women. It is not a contested opinion among any scholar either.

[–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 5 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 children)

It’s a reference to Redditors circlejerking about the same picture of an Iranian woman wearing a bikini in the 1960s.

Cool, I wasn't doing that. I was explaining why she might be a Muslim and still be against them.

And no Muslim that practices the faith will tell you wearing a Hijab is optional for Muslims.

I look forward to seeing you tell all those millions of religious Turkish women who do not wear anything on their head that they are not Muslims. I hope you forward me their responses when you let them know you have decided what their religion is.

Edit: South Asian women too.

[–] NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io -3 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Even if they don't wear hijab, they'll acknowledge that it's obligatory and what they're doing is, in fact, haram. If you say hijab isn't obligatory without an excuse like not knowing the correct ruling you do, in fact, cease to be a Muslim according to Sunni Islam consensus.

[–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 4 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Even if they don’t wear hijab, they’ll acknowledge that it’s obligatory and what they’re doing is, in fact, haram.

Ah, you speak for these women do you? Are you even a woman yourself?

Your interpretation of Islam is not the only interpretation of Islam.

[–] geneva_convenience@lemmy.ml -1 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 children)

There is no scholar disputing this. Turkey is heavily secularized you might have heard of a guy called Atatürk.

If a woman doesn't want to wear a Hijab that's up to her. But you don't claim this is a contested subject among any Islamic scholars or part of Islam. It's stated extremely clear.

[–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 3 points 4 months ago (2 children)

It is extremely clear based on your interpretation of Islam. Clearly not the case in South Asia or in Turkey. Let me guess- In Pakistan, the country with the largest Muslim population in the world, women are unIslamic.

This is some hardcore misogyny you have going on.

[–] NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io -1 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Uh... I think you're mixing up the concept of sinning and not being a Muslim. You can, in fact, be a Muslim while still committing sins. And again, almost no Muslim, scholar or not, considers hijab to be optional. It's just not a thing.

[–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 0 points 4 months ago

Yes, again, I realize that is what the interpretation that you two are pushing is. Your buddy there doesn't even known that Iranians aren't Arabs and is calling me a racist over it.

[–] geneva_convenience@lemmy.ml -1 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 children)

An Arab person or person living in an Islamic country is not by definition a Muslim.

Calling all Arabs Muslims is just racism.

[–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world -1 points 4 months ago

You do know that Iranians aren't Arabs, right?

[–] barsoap@lemm.ee 4 points 4 months ago (2 children)

There's no mention of Hijabs in the Quran and "dress modestly" is very much relative. You also may or may not see Turks drinking plum wine but they're definitely drinking beer and most definitely Raki.

[–] geneva_convenience@lemmy.ml 3 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 children)

Yes alcohol is now halal too. Everything is halal if a Turkish person does it. That is what I have learned today.

As I said, there is no debate about this among scholars whatsoever. Every scholar except sheikh barsoap agrees that covering the hair is obligatory.

https://blog.hautehijab.com/post/10399809-ask-haute-hijab-is-hijab-really-mandatory-fard

[–] barsoap@lemm.ee 1 points 4 months ago (1 children)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hijab#Alternative_views

"Clear and decisive scholarly consensus" my ass. There might be if you're ignoring everyone who disagrees.

[–] geneva_convenience@lemmy.ml 3 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 children)

According to Karen Armstrong,

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karen_Armstrong Karen Armstrong OBE FRSL (born 14 November 1944) is a British author and commentator of Irish Catholic descent.

My bad I did not know about sheikh Karen. These Christian Europeans know so much more about Islam.

[–] barsoap@lemm.ee 0 points 4 months ago (1 children)

So you picked out one non-Muslim (a scholar of comparative religion) among the many Muslims, with doctorates in Islamic Law from Arab universities and everything, to dismiss all of it.

I tried not to but I have to start to doubt your intellectual honesty. Not towards me, I don't care, but towards yourself.

[–] geneva_convenience@lemmy.ml 2 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 children)

The first paragraph contained no reasoning. Only statements. The second with the supposed reasoning is written by Karen.

I read your link. You did not.

[–] barsoap@lemm.ee 2 points 4 months ago (1 children)

All three paragraphs are written by wikipedia authors summing up longer texts by various scholars. If you want to actually engage with the topic on a deeper level, read those scholars, not just the summary. It's all linked (those numbers in brackets). Ignore the Christian if you please, noone will blame you.

[–] geneva_convenience@lemmy.ml 2 points 4 months ago

I already read your article my previous link already debunked everything in it.

You should consider reading and be intellectually honest instead.

[–] NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io -1 points 4 months ago (1 children)

There is, in fact, a clear mention of hijab in the Quran. More than one in fact.

[–] footoro@sh.itjust.works 2 points 4 months ago (1 children)

I can’t believe I’m getting involved in this but then you can surely show where it’s mentioned clearly?

[–] NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io 1 points 4 months ago (1 children)

And tell the believing women to reduce [some] of their vision and guard their private parts and not expose their adornment except that which [necessarily] appears thereof and to wrap [a portion of] their headcovers over their chests and not expose their adornment except to their husbands... until the end of the verse.

Surah al nur, verse 31.

It then explicitly assumes that they're wearing a headcover. The main debate around this verse and similar ones is whether the face and hands must be covered or not, and not whether everything else must be covered.

[–] footoro@sh.itjust.works 2 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 children)

Aha and which translation did you choose?

Do you speak Arabic? More explicitly, to an extent that would allow you to understand the nuances in a verse like that?

I’m asking because I still don’t see any proof that it is clearly written anywhere.

[–] NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io 2 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 children)

Aha and which translation did you choose? This seems rather odd.

I don't remember, but the Arabic word used means "head covering".

Do you speak Arabic? More explicitly, to an extent that would allow you to understand the nuances in a verse like that?

I'm a native speaker so yes.

[–] footoro@sh.itjust.works 2 points 4 months ago (1 children)

طب وأنا عربي كمان بس ولا عمري رح احكيلك انو فاهم اشي من القران لانو لغة القران مش لغتنا وحتى العربي الي بدو يدرس الدين لازم سنة وهو بدرس عربي بس عشان عن جد يفهم وأنا مش فاهم عربي لهالدرج وإذا أنا مش شيخ مش عارف كيف انت بدك تفهم هيك منيح لتعمل فتوى للناس

[–] NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io 2 points 4 months ago

أنا فاهم قصدك بس الموضوع برده مش صعب للدرجة. الآية بتقول خمار و كلمة خمار معناها غطاء الرأس في اللغة العربية مش محتاجة فتاوى. +أنا دورت قبل ما اتكلم فده كلام علماء مش كلامي.

[–] footoro@sh.itjust.works 1 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

If you follow the madhhab of YouTube and you rely too much on Sheikh Wikipedia, you may draw this conclusion but it’s really more nuanced than this and I thought we’re past this kind of radicalism where only one opinion is valid and everyone else goes to hell since ISIS got busted more or less.