this post was submitted on 22 Jul 2022
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I don't like Zelenskiy but people saying Ukraine is responsible for this war, you have cognitive dissonance (big time).
I never heard anyone say that. Who the fuck would say something ridiculous like that? People either say "It's only Russia" or "It's the fucking NATO!". But "It's Ukraine"? Never heard that at all.
I heard the Russian propaganda that Russia "had" to interfere to save Russians in Ukraine being oppressed by "Nazi" Selensky. Complete crap, but that's what some are arguing.
Eh... I'm not saying that Russia is a pure country full of love for every human being. Humans can be quite shitty, and that's true for Russia as well as any other part of the world, and equally true for most governments.
But... there WAS an extremely cruel civil war going on in the Ukraine, and it was between "pro-west" Ukrainians and "pro-russia" Ukrainians. That's a fact. 14,000 people died in that civil war from 2014 to 2022. That's before the war started.
I have no idea if Selensky is a Nazi, but the truth is that he sure does employ a lot of people who are incredibly obvious Nazis. Right down to Nazi tattoos and all that shit.
That's not some weird fantasy, that's a fact. The only weird thing is that so many people choose to act as if that is a completely normal thing to have: Multiple militarized (sic!) Nazi battalions working for the state, paid by the state, with weapons provided by the state (and their friends).
Everybody can have their own opinion about this, but these are facts. Very obvious and provable facts.
As does Putin. All the way down to paying obvious Nazi mercenaries to do his dirty work around the world. Oh and the Chechnyan Islamists that Putin has deployed as part of the official Russian army are hardly better. And that are also very obvious and provable facts.
There is no moral right side in this conflict other than that the civilians of one side, the Ukrainians, are those most effected and that Ukraine definitely did not start this war with Russia.
The whole world is affected by this. Ukrainian and Russian men are affected, because they fight and die in this war. And you're right, what you said are also facts.
We should stress every single government who has something to gain from this to stop what they are doing, and let people live in democracy and peace. That's a fucking long way to go, but better to start that way before WWIII, and not after. I prefer that very much.
Look up some pictures from the top people active in what the west likes to call "Wagner group" of mercenaries, which are under direct control of a close Putin ally and also deployed in the Ukraine. They have literal tattoos based on SS Nazi uniforms and are showing them off on the internet openly.
Also read up on public declarations of Chechnyan military commanders in the Russian Army about waging Jihad in Ukraine...
The "Nazi collaborator" monuments are there not because of they collaborated with the Nazis (most Ukrainians don't even know this as it isn't taught in schools), but because these people also fought against Russian colonial oppression. Would be very strange to have monuments for that in Russia.
This Wagner group?
And Zelenskiy is also rather driven by a strong nationalistic sentiment in the remaining parts of Ukraine and the political establishment.
Some leftist Ukrainians have told me that if he would diverge from that current stance it would be likely that he would be forced to resign rather soon.
Isn't that a big red flag (heh) that he's not actually in charge?
He is not a dictator but an elected official (who was not elected as a war leader and thus has a weak mandate). There is no conspiracy of hidden people pulling the strings, that is just how a parliamentary democracy works (as flawed as the Ukrainian one might be).
Zelensky banned all the opposition parties, he banned media, and prosecuted dissenters. Claiming that he's an elected official with a weak mandate is incredibly disingenuous.
You need to lay off the Russian propaganda, there are still plenty of fully legal opposition parties in Ukraine right now. What was banned was a tiny party with direct links and likely funding from Putin.
Didn't Zelensky ban the largest opposition party in Ukraine?
You're right, right wing parties haven't been banned in Ukraine, it's just the left wing ones. Funny how you always carry water for the nazis.
Well AFAIK Ukraine doesn't have any genocide camps.
so you say ukranians are genociding whom? and to what end? have any non hearsay sources on this?
Well they are shooting at civilians in Donbass since 8 years. And openly say that all "moscuvites" (Russians) need to be killed, inclusing children. Sounds very much like genocide to me.
I think Ukraine believed until the very end that Western support would stop Russians from attacking.
Ukraine made the mistake of trying to reclaim Luhansk and Donetsk, even though the Russian side is clearly stronger.