this post was submitted on 14 Jul 2022
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Signal has a lot of things going for it Matrix doesn't have... more convenient, simpler, easier to use, more focus on privacy, better calling. Matrix does some things Signal does, but they have different feature sets really. Matrix being free software, unfortunately, doesn't matter to most people. Matrix also arguably isn't really about security and privacy. It's more of a universal chat platform, so they don't compete directly.
The fact the Matrix is usually marketed as a platform for secure and private communications is somewhat difficult to understand.
I think the reason they are considered similar is the usage of Double Ratchet encryption.
I don't think Signal is much easier than Matrix. This is why I'm so excited about Telegram. Telegram's an easy to use and feature rich chat app that also has open source clients and decent Linux support. It's great for using with non-techie friends. Matrix is great for using with techie friends. Signal is somewhere in between, and doesn't really fullfill either role.
but Telegram doesn't even have encyption, lol
Of course it does. It just doesn't have E2E encryption by default (you can turn it on with secret chats). If the alternative is messaging on Instagram, Facebook Messenger or WhatzApp, then Telegram is superiour.
listen to yourself, it doesn't have e2e encryption by default?? So the telegram servers can see your chats, that's not acceptable for a chat software.
e2e also doesn't work in groups on telegram the last time I checked, so the chat with a couple of friends is out for grabs by whatever jurisdiction telegram is operating under as well, great.
Signal is like 5 times better than this, so is whatsapp (depends though) and of course matrix or xmpp. Comparing it to instagram messaging is a joke.
We actually don't know what WhatsApp is doing. It's a closed source app, so there is nothing preventing Facebook from getting your keys and reading your chats. It just takes one national security letter to force them.
Telegram wins because it's usable by non-techies. And has open source clients. And has a decent Linux client. It's preferable to chatting over Instagram.
@thervingi
I would still much rather chat to people over whatsapp than telegram because at least whatsapp has E2EE by default.
@sexy_peach
Why do you think WhatsApp has E2EE? It's a closed source app. There is nothing preventing Facebook from grabbing your keys.
@thervingi
Probably the fact that if news slipped out, it would have been (one of) the biggest scandles facebook has ever done, and I dont personally think its worth the risk for them.
That's what NDA's are for :) Facebook got away with a lot worse.
Also it might not be Facebook's decision. It takes one national security letter from the FISA court to force them.
on Telegram they wouldn't even have to grab your keys, they can just run data collection on all their users unnoticed, without breaking any promises.
I don't get this Telegram hate. Why prefer Facebook over something that supports Linux and has open source clients.
Because it isn't encrypted.
Neither is WhatsApp.
No it is, but it sucks too.
Facebook says WhatsApp is end to end encrypted, but give me one reason to believe anything Facebook says. Unless you show me code, I can assume it's not.
Worst case it's as bad as telegram
I seriously don't understand this. You prefer Facebook's closed source app over something open source? It's Facebook!
Do you believe that telegram is collecting all the data in the backend?
The client is open source, you can look at exactly what it does on your device.
The point is that Facebook's claim for EE2E doesn't mean a thing as long as the client is closed source. I can claim anything as long as I don't have to actually prove it.
The fact that Facebook refuses to open source WhatsApp client doesn't lend credibility to their claim for E2EE.
That doesn't answer my question though. I asked about their servers, not your client.
We don't know since we don't have access to their servers.
I'm not saying Telegram is the best chat service. I prefer Matrix over Telegram. But Telegram is objectively better than WhatsApp and is doing a good job of getting people off Facebook (around 700 million users last I checked).
Man, I get this, but you're late the party. Telegram was exciting 8 years ago. :)
The recently have reached around 700 Million users. Telegram is de-Facebooking the internet faster than anything else.
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