this post was submitted on 02 Jun 2024
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Your statement is exhibiting a narrow anthropocentric point of view. Obviously, human beings aren't meant to be here forever. Just like any individual life form, we live for a moment and then die.
The question is not "how can we survive for the longest amount of time possible?", it's not even "how can I get the most out of my time living?", it's "what do I leave behind for those that remain?"
In the case of human beings as a species, our best selves are those that leave a positive impact on our environment, stewards of the Earth. But we obviously aren't exhibiting our best selves.
"The Earth will be fine." is a pointless statement akin to "The next generation will figure out this mess." Both statements hand wave away the complicated problem that needs to be solved right the fuck now.
A better statement to ponder is the difficult question of "how do we leave this place better than we found it even if we do go extinct?" And on a more individual level, "what decisions and actions can we take to make sure the world is better off for those that will come after me?" Which then begs the follow up question, "What does a better world look like?", and also "How can we get there?"
Whining about what you can't do, or isn't feasible in the paradigm that is modern civilization is pointless. You can't have modern capitalism and leave the Earth a better place than it was before.
Very soon, something major will have to change sociopolitically and economically if we're going to simply go extinct with dignity. Let alone preserve the climate for our children.
So first you say: Don’t bear children. And now you’re trying to counteract my point by saying: think of the children… I’m positive you didn’t even read beyond my first sentence. Cause I’m literally saying we need to get our shit together.
Then let's go over your post, line by line.
That's incorrect. Nature is an ambivalent unfeeling aspect of our reality. This is the hand waving comment I was referencing earlier. It amounts to "The Earth will be fine. Humans should only focus on the environment as much as it relates to humans." I heavily disagree. Humans should focus on the environment to ensure that it remains in a state that sustains as much biodiversity and life for its own sake.
I believe I addressed this as well. This is anthropocentric thinking. "Human beings should only care about human beings" sort of thinking. My argument is that the fight for a "better environment", as you put it, is not for the sake of preserving human beings, but rather for the sake of leaving the Earth in a state that is better for biodiversity as a whole, that is a better world period, whether human beings go extinct or not.
Ultimately I hold human beings to a higher standard than the average person. I believe we are beings capable of great compassion for other living beings on this Earth, but most seem to think we are little more than a thinking animal. I am less concerned with preserving human survival, and more concerned with the legacy humans leave once we are gone, even if there is not a soul to appreciate it, it is still worth doing in my opinion because I believe that is the pinnacle of what humans are capable of, i.e. Compassionate Selflessness.
Now let's address your latest comment:
Not having children is thinking of the children. Just think about it. If I tell you that having children will make the environment worse, and encourage you to not have children. Ultimately those children that do end up being born in that world with less people in it will inherit a world with an environment under less strain from less human beings.
Well I did read your post, and I stand by my initial response.
On that we are in agreement. The point on which we differ is on whether advocating for not having children is reasonable. I've made my case on this point, and unless you have anything to elaborate on, I don't see how you've made a reasonable argument to the contrary. But of course, feel free to respond.
And also, in response to your separate name calling:
Another hard disagree. The human population is far beyond what it can sustain without oil. Oil goes into our fertilizers, our medications, our daily used plastic packaged products, etc. Without oil, we would not be able to feed and sustain the population we have now, the majority of which live in relative squalor. And we WILL need to vastly cut back on our oil consumption to stabilize the climate. Depopulation will either be forced through mass starvation due to lack of oil and degradation of our environment, or will be chosen by those who opt out of having children.
Repopulation is something touted by the rich to ensure a continuous supply of wage/literal slaves and armies for future nation states to hold dominance. Depopulation will be necessary in order to ensure the survival not only of the human race but also the majority of the currently existing life on this planet, as well as ensuring that the quality of life for those that do live in such a world can be expected to be better than what we have today.
Edgy? Meh, your perspective. Stupid? Debate me.
You need a lot of words to correct yourself, you may sound smart, to me you sound like a hypocrite. let me go ahead and try to summarize, what you actually try to say is: we should bear less children, instead of your first statement no children at all. On that we can agree.
Correct myself? Nope. Just reinforced my arguments.
And I'll stand by my original statement. Don't bear children. Leave the earth better off than when you found it, not having children is one of the easiest way to do that.
The only way I'm a hypocrite is if I'm a parent, which I guess you'll just have to take my word on it when I say I'm not. Thank goodness I'm not. But hey, you and I aren't ever gonna get along anyway, right? So you think whatever you want of me.
Lastly, can we all just take a moment and appreciate that we got into this because of a question about the effect on fertility rates due to microplastics in our testicles?
Leave the earth for whom then? No one? Everything else but humanity? It’s such a destructive and pessimistic take. And no, we are not gonna get along then. I have a bit more faith in humanity and our intuitive ability to adapt.