EDIT: here's a source for that figure
Previous studies have estimated that 73% of all antimicrobials sold globally are used in animals raised for food
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7766021/pdf/antibiotics-09-00918.pdf
this post was submitted on 28 May 2024
732 points (100.0% liked)
196
16484 readers
1853 users here now
Be sure to follow the rule before you head out.
Rule: You must post before you leave.
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
Not the person you are replying to, but want to counter that part specifically. The cost is actually usually the other way around. It's much more of a privilege to consume large amounts of meat and dairy
From a modeling study looking at healthy plant-based diets:
https://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2021-11-11-sustainable-eating-cheaper-and-healthier-oxford-study
From some real world spending data
https://agrifoodecon.springeropen.com/articles/10.1186/s40100-022-00224-9
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0921800915301488?via%3Dihub ---(looking at the US)
People on plant-based diets tend not to eat a ton of plant-based meats, and lower income people are esspecially less likely to be relying on them because of cost?
I don't follow what you are saying about not being applicable to the US, and UK. Those countries are the modeling study most applies to and shows lower costs?
Additionally it's worth mentining if we look at other data, lower-income people are most likely to be vegan and vegetarian
spoiler
asdfasfasfasfasThat's what the earlier sources looking at real world spending data did... they saw lower costs for people on plant-based diets
I am again confused why we're talking about bread here when that isn't affected by a plant-based or not plant-based diet
Do you know if it's reasonable / practicable to be vegeterian while doing keto? I've enjoyed how it makes me feel but the carb limit is difficult to meet without meat.
I know of people that do even vegan keto. There's actually a decently large subreddit for it. There are resources out there if you feel inclined to do so
I'd always caution people about keto in general though, esspecially for meat heavy keto. A lot of the discussion around it is not always the most scientific
Much of what people may be observing from keto is likely not as much due to carb limits, but from watching food closer. On most diets, people tend to report stuff like weight loss because they're more aware of what they eat. Or in other cases, changing foods around accidentally ends up avoiding a very specific food sensitivity. For instance you'll find lots of similar observations from a whole-foods plant-based diet
If it's not being done for reasons like epilepsy, Keto overall has some not so great long term health impacts that people tend to gloss over. Though much of that research finding more negative outcomes look at people doing so with a meat heavy diet. Ranging from bone health to kidney damage. If I remember correctly, the more limited research about vegan keto has found better results, but I'd still advise caution in general
TLDR; yes it's possible and there are people that do it, but just be careful about keto in general because it's got some long term impacts that aren't so great
Is there not a lot of conflicting evidence for, not keto specifically, but the role of fats and saturated fats (I believe the most concerning aspects of keto) in health? I did a bit of research before going on it and I think came to the conclusion it wasn't really backed as healthy nor unhealthy but couldn't be worse than eating garbage instead.
I'll be sure to check out the vegetarian / vegan keto subreddits though! Might find some nice meals ideas.
Reading through some more scientific reviews article, it seems like a lot of the risk comes from animal-based product consumption particularly. For instance, one study found increased all-cause mortality for keto with higher animal product consumption and decreased levels for a plant-based keto diet. However, given that most studies aren't focusing on that, it's still hard to tell if there's other risks not being included there. Additionally, a lot of the touted benefits of keto appear to wane over time and don't end up doing all that much better than other diets
I'd still recommend just being careful about it
https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fnut.2021.702802/full#h1
https://www.mdpi.com/2072-6643/9/5/517?d=40&cgid=9aS3
And yet rice, beans/lentils, pasta, vegetables, and spices are all vegan, and are all the staples for low-cost meals in grocery stores the world over. Where do you live where that isn't the case?
Fruits are also available but usually tend to be more expensive and are usually considered a treat for people on limited budgets. Me not listing them was part of keeping to the usual budget shopping lists recommend for people with limited income. Unless you are further being a pedant and insisting that tomatoes are fruits and not vegetables.
And while I am fortunate enough to live in the continental US, I mostly buy what is in season and local and therefore on sale for relatively cheap. And anywhere where that isn't available, frozen veggies are available, often for even cheaper and with no difference in nutritional value or content. If you don't have a fridge/freezer, dried veggies are also available in most markets (dried peppers especially) and canned goods are far better for you now than they ever have been, with only marginal decreases in nutritional value.
Where do you live that absolutely no vegetables are available in any form for a dollar a can or five dollars for a family pack that would make a couple dozen meals for a family of four?
(Edit: Or, if not in the US, where you can't even buy local produce, unless you are in an area where there is famine. In which case you may object to the fact that almost half our farmable land is used to grow crops to feed to animals instead of being used to grow more food for humans.)
spoiler
asdfasfasfasfasDude, vegans can and do eat fruits. For people who can't afford seasonal fresh fruit, we have fortified foods like bread, pasta, rice, and cereals, most of which are also vegan. I specified rice and beans (and everything else you conveniently ignored, lol) because they make a complete protein, which is usually the only thing you need to monitor closely if you are vegan on a budget. Anything else and you are best off getting a multivitamin for best bang for your buck.
Also, you saying none of us have been hungry and then lecturing us about not getting both fruits AND vegetables when fresh fruit is one of the most expensive things in a grocery store, outside of meat that is? You clearly have never been poor enough that you have been needing to have your 'fruit' be the cheapest jar of grape jelly you can find, or the cans of frozen 'orange drink concentrate'.
spoiler
asdfasfasfasfasLol now I know you're trolling. Have a good life.
Beans and rice aren't replacing the fruits and vegetables part. People eating meat-based diets are also eating fruits and vegetables, or if not, they aren't going be healthy either
spoiler
asdfasfasfasfasThis is more or less just repeating the original claim without addressing any of the other points brought up. I am also confused why we're talking about bread now when that's perfectly plant-based?
Anywhere where meat is not subsidised tto hell?
You know you can't actually argue against it, so you point to a small hypothetical edgecase as if that will excuse your behavior. You are the one who lacks perspective and demonstrates extreme entitlement. You think because there may be some people forced between starvation and factory meat that it somehow gives you moral superiority and permission to destroy the lives of others. I go out of my way to make things better, you desperately search for anything you can to distract from all the harm you selfishly cause.
You don't even have the strength to let other people do the work. You feel like you need to go out of your way to attack and intimidate them because it makes you feel so inferior. Lucky for you, there are people on the planet to take care of things for you while you just sit by and moan and complain. We work for a better world despite you while you complain about our efforts, you entitled little brat.
Other people have handled you naivety well. Now, please do your part and fix your diet for the sake of everyone on the planet. You want to stand up for people, so stand up for them by showing some self-control.